F1technical.net

PhillipM wrote:

bigpat wrote: I understand only Ferrari are running water to air inter cooling, hence the smaller side pods.Not sure about Sauber and Marussia. The Marussia clearly makes the loudest intercooler sound off throttle though!

Off boost the engines sound really bad. Once they spool up, they are nicer, and all the exhaust notes vary somewhat. If we want noise, we need them to run waste gates, and vent the excess exhaust straight out the back. That would give them some bark!!!!

So, given you still need to cool the water with a big rad what are your reasons for believing water intercoolers would give smaller sidepods? Water/air intercoolers are generally used only for packaging reasons around an engine bay, they generally result in a larger overall package than air/air....

Also, what does an intercooler sound like, I've never heard one, can you play them like a trumpet or something?

I got somewhere (I think from Scarbs) that water cooling is smaller, but also a lot heavier.

turbof1 wrote: I got somewhere (I think from Scarbs) that water cooling is smaller, but also a lot heavier.

You've still got to reject the heat to the air at some point, only now you have another radiator to package, and probably a water pump, I could understand it if the air piping was hard to package in the sidepods compared to some water lines but given the intercoolers are sat smack side-by-side to the engine/turbo anyway...

PhillipM wrote:

turbof1 wrote: I got somewhere (I think from Scarbs) that water cooling is smaller, but also a lot heavier.

You've still got to reject the heat to the air at some point, only now you have another radiator to package, and probably a water pump, I could understand it if the air piping was hard to package in the sidepods compared to some water lines but given the intercoolers are sat smack side-by-side to the engine/turbo anyway...

Water is a much better thermal conductor than air, therefore a smaller surface area radiator, can get the same heat rejection from the turbocharger compressor air. You can also reduce the length of piping and with a loss of extra air piping and the air intercooler you get less turbo lag.

Turbo lag isn't an issue with a great big motor spooling it up anyway. You're also not going to be much smaller with the main intercooler, as apart from slightly smaller coolant passages compared to intake air, you're always going to be transfer limited by the much slower moving airflow through the sidepod compared to the faster moving and denser engine intake air. Maybe it's enough to make a difference, but given the water pump and intake/water intercooler still needs to be packaged...not a lot.

PhillipM wrote:Turbo lag isn't an issue with a great big motor spooling it up anyway. You're also not going to be much smaller with the main intercooler, as apart from slightly smaller coolant passages compared to intake air, you're always going to be transfer limited by the much slower moving airflow through the sidepod compared to the faster moving and denser engine intake air. Maybe it's enough to make a difference, but given the water pump and intake/water intercooler still needs to be packaged...not a lot.

Actually the radiators required for liquid/intercoolers are MUCH smaller than those required for air to air. Go look up the heat rejection rates of water vs air radiators and you'll see. The offset is more weight and higher complexity.

trinidefender wrote: Actually the radiators required for liquid/intercoolers are MUCH smaller than those required for air to air. Go look up the heat rejection rates of water vs air radiators and you'll see. The offset is more weight and higher complexity.

Unfortunately, you're still rejecting heat to the slow moving sidepod airflow, not to water.

PhillipM wrote:

trinidefender wrote: Actually the radiators required for liquid/intercoolers are MUCH smaller than those required for air to air. Go look up the heat rejection rates of water vs air radiators and you'll see. The offset is more weight and higher complexity.

Unfortunately, you're still rejecting heat to the slow moving sidepod airflow, not to water.

Yes but water rejects heat to air much quicker than air rejects heat to air, henceforth the water radiator would be much smaller.

trinidefender wrote:

PhillipM wrote:

trinidefender wrote: Actually the radiators required for liquid/intercoolers are MUCH smaller than those required for air to air. Go look up the heat rejection rates of water vs air radiators and you'll see. The offset is more weight and higher complexity.

Unfortunately, you're still rejecting heat to the slow moving sidepod airflow, not to water.

Yes but water rejects heat to air much quicker than air rejects heat to air, henceforth the water radiator would be much smaller.

The water isn't rejecting heat to air, it's rejecting heat to the metal of the radiator, which in turn rejects heat to the air.

Or the air is stopping the metal atoms from moving around too much which in turn stops the water atoms from moving around.

And I still want to know what an intercooler sounds like.

beelsebob wrote:

trinidefender wrote:[quote="PhillipM] Unfortunately, you're still rejecting heat to the slow moving sidepod airflow, not to water.

Yes but water rejects heat to air much quicker than air rejects heat to air, henceforth the water radiator would be much smaller.

The water isn't rejecting heat to air, it's rejecting heat to the metal of the radiator, which in turn rejects heat to the air.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

The air in an air to air rejects heat to the same metal so that is a moot pt and can be assumed

dren wrote:They do run waste gates as safeties and dump them out the back through the exhaust.

Also, what exactly does an intercooler sound like?

Tick, Tick, Tick. As it expands and contracts through heating and cooling

SectorOne wrote:Or the air is stopping the metal atoms from moving around too much which in turn stops the water atoms from moving around.

Water atoms?
I know a water molecule, or hydrogen & oxygen atoms...

this is why renault are having so many issues. they are the only engine co to be using air/air coolers for intercooler and battery/kers cooling. all the others are using water/air for kers and intercoolers. heck they might even have a water injection setup wo cool the inlet air temps

seinfeld wrote:this is why renault are having so many issues. they are the only engine co to be using air/air coolers for intercooler and battery/kers cooling. all the others are using water/air for kers and intercoolers. heck they might even have a water injection setup wo cool the inlet air temps

proof?