F1technical.net

f1jcw wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2022, 12:50

RZS10 wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2022, 12:47

Taken from this article ‘Disappearing’ skid blocks a part of F1’s flexi floor tricks

Toto Wolff [...] confirmed [...] that two tricks had emerged [...]

“[...] Some teams have skids that actually disappear when the car hits the bottom [...] that is clearly against the regulations.

Then the second thing is a plank that can deflect [...] you gain some performance there too.

“[...]he first one [skid tricks] is going to disappear for Spa [...] And the second one is going to be clarified in next year's regulations.”

It seems that whoever is running a flexing plank (the very thing which was discussed and deemed to be illegal but not put into the regs by the FIA prior to the season) used their influence to get the FIA to delay any measures to next year, whilst those who use other tricks were not as successful.

How did Bar running double tanks not get the opportunity to run it all year, this all stinks very badly.
The skid plates be delayed. Ban them now! It’s not a grey area it is cheating.

It says in that article it will take that long to get the 'new' skid blocks manufactured, which is understandable as they would need many of them all identical and no call for the teams to complain someone has a better set than them

Big Tea wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2022, 13:01

f1jcw wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2022, 12:50

RZS10 wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2022, 12:47

Taken from this article ‘Disappearing’ skid blocks a part of F1’s flexi floor tricks




It seems that whoever is running a flexing plank (the very thing which was discussed and deemed to be illegal but not put into the regs by the FIA prior to the season) used their influence to get the FIA to delay any measures to next year, whilst those who use other tricks were not as successful.

How did Bar running double tanks not get the opportunity to run it all year, this all stinks very badly.
The skid plates be delayed. Ban them now! It’s not a grey area it is cheating.

It says in that article it will take that long to get the 'new' skid blocks manufactured, which is understandable as they would need many of them all identical and no call for the teams to complain someone has a better set than them

So, all BAR need to say was, it’ll take us a few races to come up with some new fuel tanks and fia would have said that’s fine. Correct me if I am wrong, they got a two race ban.
This is not a grey area this is deliberate manufacture to obfuscate the rules and gain and advantage, not are they allowed to keep the points that an advantage was gained in but they are being allowed to continue to use the offending part.
Since when did FIA and F1 fans become so blase about cheating.
Not once, but twice.
As being show in the Merc thread, it’s now if you can beat cheating teams, join them.
It is absolutely absurd.

F1 technical.net needs to change its name to F1cheating.net

The only reason I can think of why Toto and his team aren’t protesting this is because they are doing it themselves but obviously lot worse then RBR and SF.

darkpino wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2022, 14:10

The only reason I can think of why Toto and his team aren’t protesting this is because they are doing it themselves but obviously lot worse then RBR and SF.

Starting from this race, the Merc now has a split in the plank

So to fix will take many races
To add takes one

Hmmmmm

f1jcw wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2022, 13:30

Big Tea wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2022, 13:01

f1jcw wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2022, 12:50

How did Bar running double tanks not get the opportunity to run it all year, this all stinks very badly.
The skid plates be delayed. Ban them now! It’s not a grey area it is cheating.

It says in that article it will take that long to get the 'new' skid blocks manufactured, which is understandable as they would need many of them all identical and no call for the teams to complain someone has a better set than them

So, all BAR need to say was, it’ll take us a few races to come up with some new fuel tanks and fia would have said that’s fine. Correct me if I am wrong, they got a two race ban.
This is not a grey area this is deliberate manufacture to obfuscate the rules and gain and advantage, not are they allowed to keep the points that an advantage was gained in but they are being allowed to continue to use the offending part.
Since when did FIA and F1 fans become so blase about cheating.
Not once, but twice.
As being show in the Merc thread, it’s now if you can beat cheating teams, join them.
It is absolutely absurd.

F1 technical.net needs to change its name to F1cheating.net

No, because the new skid blocks will be standard parts issued by F1. That is why they have to have enough to supply all the teams (I think?)

Big Tea wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2022, 14:19

f1jcw wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2022, 13:30

Big Tea wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2022, 13:01

It says in that article it will take that long to get the 'new' skid blocks manufactured, which is understandable as they would need many of them all identical and no call for the teams to complain someone has a better set than them

So, all BAR need to say was, it’ll take us a few races to come up with some new fuel tanks and fia would have said that’s fine. Correct me if I am wrong, they got a two race ban.
This is not a grey area this is deliberate manufacture to obfuscate the rules and gain and advantage, not are they allowed to keep the points that an advantage was gained in but they are being allowed to continue to use the offending part.
Since when did FIA and F1 fans become so blase about cheating.
Not once, but twice.
As being show in the Merc thread, it’s now if you can beat cheating teams, join them.
It is absolutely absurd.

F1 technical.net needs to change its name to F1cheating.net

No, because the new skid blocks will be standard parts issued by F1. That is why they have to have enough to supply all the teams (I think?)

Do you think anyone with a deliberately designed illegal win would be allowed to race with it?
No

If they didn’t have time to build a new one, would they be allowed to compete with it? No

So why are teams that deliberately engineered an illegal skid plate allowed to compete and earn points with it

Big Tea wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2022, 14:19

[...] the new skid blocks will be standard parts issued by F1. That is why they have to have enough to supply all the teams (I think?)

Nope, they all make their own, suddenly changing them to a spec part would be a way too big rule change and no team would go along with it
Check the tech regulations 3.5.9 k)-s) page 19 - it's mainly about the maximum total area and that of the individual pieces and if you compare different floors you'll see the skid blocks are all in different places.
RB has 7 blocks, some of which are split pieces around the measurement holes, Merc has 6 which fully surround the holes, Ferrari also has 6 but strategically placed in certain areas around the holes in the floor, same for Alfa with 5


Please ignore the shoddy scaling, per regulations (3.5.9 h. and 39.5 same doc) the holes are all in the same place on all planks.

It would probably take one day at most to produce new pieces with the same dimensions but rigid, if it's the plank assembly which needs changing then a few days so ultimately the extra time is so that teams which exploit the rules can make sure their car works fine without the tricks in question.

____

Btw i don't believe that a split plank is necessarily indicative of any given team using tricks, the rules allow it to be three pieces, Alfa being one of the teams that seems to fully utilize this.

Is there any chance of these planks becoming a spec part in future? Would close any loopholes or material engineering to aid any sort of advantage

RZS10 wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2022, 14:42

so ultimately the extra time is so that teams which exploit the rules can make sure their car works fine without the tricks in question.

Why not DSQ like they have done in the past. Why are cars that are engineered to illegally get around a rule allowed to drive. How is this any different from 2 fuel tanks.

RZS10 wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2022, 14:42

Big Tea wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2022, 14:19

[...] the new skid blocks will be standard parts issued by F1. That is why they have to have enough to supply all the teams (I think?)

Nope, they all make their own, suddenly changing them to a spec part would be a a way too big rule change and no team would go along with it
Check the tech regulations 3.5.9 k)-s) page 19 - it's mainly about the maximum total area and that of the individual pieces and if you compare different floors you'll see the skid blocks are all in different places.
RB has 7 blocks, some of which are split pieces around the measurement holes, Merc has 6 which fully surround the holes, Ferrari also has 6 but strategically placed in certain areas around the holes in the floor.

https://i.imgur.com/LVcwHZc.png
Please ignore the shoddy scaling, per regulations (39.5 same doc) the holes are all in the same place on all planks.

It would probably take one day at most to produce new pieces with the same dimensions but rigid, if it's the plank assembly which needs chanding then a few days so ultimately the extra time is so that teams which exploit the rules can make sure their car works fine without the tricks in question.

I read in the article above -- “I think the first one [skid tricks] is going to disappear for Spa...because apparently skid material is not available [until then] and assumed it was not available to 'them'.

Miss - info sorry.

RZS10 wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2022, 14:42

Nope, they all make their own, suddenly changing them to a spec part would be a way too big rule change and no team would go along with it

I can't say I agree. It's a wooden plank of standardised dimensions, what does it matter if it is a spec part?

JordanMugen wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2022, 17:28

RZS10 wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2022, 14:42

Nope, they all make their own, suddenly changing them to a spec part would be a way too big rule change and no team would go along with it

I can't say I agree. It's a wooden plank of standardised dimensions, what does it matter if it is a spec part?

They can be any composite material between a specific gravity now.

Yea, and the mountings' positions aren't prescribed either, so will be in different places on the cars - that alone would make it impossible.

RZS10 wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2022, 17:38

Yea, and the mountings' positions aren't prescribed either, so will be in different places on the cars - that alone would make it impossible.

Sure, but you could standardise it for 2023, no?

Edit - I think many fans would be surprised to learn it is not a spec part. I always had the impression it was, e.g., I recall reading in some motor racing magazine 20 years ago "on the Dallara F301 F3 a wooden plank is used to ensure ride height legality, just like in Formula One, but this is not any old wooden plank but rather a specific hardwood (etc)". It gave me the impression it was a spec part.

It seems strange that teams would be responsible for sourcing and engineering a piece of wood/composite used for enforcing ride height legality. It would be like NASCAR teams being responsible for making their own legality templates.

Ah yes. Of course.

I just read it in context of the discussion regarding the delay and this TD - the plank and it's mountings being spec would be the easiest solution.