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ivanlesk wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2018, 09:27

McMika98 wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2018, 07:14

Brenton wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2018, 05:01

My poorly educated guess is 10hp = 0.15s per typical lap on average. Somewhere between 0.1-0.2s

Ahem. Poorly calculated figure.
But if they will bring 30hp, that will push them up the top of engine power rankings. Amazes me that Benson's sources say Honda is behind Renault when they are much faster.

Where did you pull that one?

Maximum HP (KW) is a misleading figure though. It is only available in one spot. An engine can have lower numbers for max HP and have the usable power starting sooner and rising faster, just not to the same peek.

I always go for the widest range, but then I don't race to the speeds F1 do .

Big Tea wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2018, 11:31

ivanlesk wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2018, 09:27

McMika98 wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2018, 07:14

Ahem. Poorly calculated figure.
But if they will bring 30hp, that will push them up the top of engine power rankings. Amazes me that Benson's sources say Honda is behind Renault when they are much faster.

Where did you pull that one?

Maximum HP (KW) is a misleading figure though. It is only available in one spot. An engine can have lower numbers for max HP and have the usable power starting sooner and rising faster, just not to the same peek.

I always go for the widest range, but then I don't race to the speeds F1 do .

I get that, but didn't understand why you thing Honda is faster then Renault?

ivanlesk wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2018, 11:54

Big Tea wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2018, 11:31

ivanlesk wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2018, 09:27

Where did you pull that one?

Maximum HP (KW) is a misleading figure though. It is only available in one spot. An engine can have lower numbers for max HP and have the usable power starting sooner and rising faster, just not to the same peek.

I always go for the widest range, but then I don't race to the speeds F1 do .

I get that, but didn't understand why you thing Honda is faster then Renault?

It was not I who said they were , just saying a higher HP figure dose not make it a faster car or a lower one slower, especially when you include gathered electrical power added, or not added at the end of the straight or the beginning of it. No argument from me, just observation, which I'm sure everyone knows anyway

I swear, every 7 days this thread gets stuck in the following frustrating limit-cycle oscillation

1. journalist posts singular hp/kw number that honda is targeting
2. everyone gets angry/excited
3. someone points out the fact that single numbers are not the whole story
4. people eventually agree with that point
5. someone else mentions, sure, "thermodynamics is a cruel accountant and ultimately you want the ICE to be as efficient as possible so the conventional understanding of the utility of a single hp/kw number typically referring to the ICE is not entirely useless"
6. repeat

nzjrs wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2018, 12:08

I swear, every 7 days this thread gets stuck in the following frustrating limit-cycle oscillation

1. journalist posts singular hp/kw number that honda is targeting
2. everyone gets angry/excited
3. someone points out the fact that single numbers are not the whole story
4. people eventually agree with that point
5. someone else mentions, sure, "thermodynamics is a cruel accountant and ultimately you want the ICE to be as efficient as possible so the conventional understanding of the utility of a single hp/kw number typically referring to the ICE is not entirely useless"
6. repeat

Now we can start to Code

With the +30hp that Honda should bring in Canada,what would be approximate deficit to Merc PU then?

30hp less than it is now.

dren wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2018, 15:37

30hp less than it is now.

Unless Merc add some in the mean time

dren wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2018, 15:37

30hp less than it is now.

How do you know how much is now? There were speculations that on the tests the power was about 950 hp. You mean that Mercedes is over 1000 hp?

alexa wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2018, 14:54

With the +30hp that Honda should bring in Canada,what would be approximate deficit to Merc PU then?

Nobody knows, because that +30hp is probably not peak power. There's a good chance that it could be +30hp lower down the rpm range where they filled in a dip in the torque curve...

If you added up all the "+20hp" "+10hp" - etc, given and assumed they were all peak figures that have been given over the years then most of the engine manufacturers would be about 1200bhp by now

yeah and if the PU with STR you will estimate a figure but if the PU with RBR you will estimate a higher figure
who to say and who to decide , putting the PU inside a top 3 car is the only way to properly evaluate comparing to others

Big Tea wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2018, 11:31

ivanlesk wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2018, 09:27

McMika98 wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2018, 07:14

Ahem. Poorly calculated figure.
But if they will bring 30hp, that will push them up the top of engine power rankings. Amazes me that Benson's sources say Honda is behind Renault when they are much faster.

Where did you pull that one?

Maximum HP (KW) is a misleading figure though. It is only available in one spot. An engine can have lower numbers for max HP and have the usable power starting sooner and rising faster, just not to the same peek.

I always go for the widest range, but then I don't race to the speeds F1 do .

What reason is there to think that these engines that are tightly regulated into fairly equal designs would have drastically different power curves? To the extent that the higher max hp engine is likely to be significantly lower in overall power? I find this hard to believe.

McMika98 wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2018, 07:14

Brenton wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2018, 05:01

etusch wrote: ↑

10 Apr 2018, 18:46

Is there a calculation how much they will gain with 27 hp in the lap time (I hope it is race trim power)

My poorly educated guess is 10hp = 0.15s per typical lap on average. Somewhere between 0.1-0.2s

Ahem. Poorly calculated figure.
But if they will bring 30hp, that will push them up the top of engine power rankings. Amazes me that Benson's sources say Honda is behind Renault when they are much faster.

Please tell us then, what is a better calculation? My guess is based on F1 simulations (Grand Prix 4 tests give this figure) and poorly remembered quotes from news articles.

Brenton wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2018, 19:54

McMika98 wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2018, 07:14

Brenton wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2018, 05:01

My poorly educated guess is 10hp = 0.15s per typical lap on average. Somewhere between 0.1-0.2s

Ahem. Poorly calculated figure.
But if they will bring 30hp, that will push them up the top of engine power rankings. Amazes me that Benson's sources say Honda is behind Renault when they are much faster.

Please tell us then, what is a better calculation? My guess is based on F1 simulations (Grand Prix 4 tests give this figure) and poorly remembered quotes from news articles.

Not arguing about your guesstimation but if acc to ur estimate 10hp is 0.15, 30 would be 0.45s, no?

McMika98 wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2018, 20:34

Brenton wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2018, 19:54

McMika98 wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2018, 07:14

Ahem. Poorly calculated figure.
But if they will bring 30hp, that will push them up the top of engine power rankings. Amazes me that Benson's sources say Honda is behind Renault when they are much faster.

Please tell us then, what is a better calculation? My guess is based on F1 simulations (Grand Prix 4 tests give this figure) and poorly remembered quotes from news articles.

Not arguing about your guesstimation but if acc to ur estimate 10hp is 0.15, 30 would be 0.45s, no?

Is there a ratio like 10hp = 0.15, 20hp=0.35 etc or is it static like your calculation