Sounds like they are doing some PWM with the H or K, most likely H. Keep the turbo spinning but recovering some of it's energy to ES ? Wild guess but it really reminds me of a low frequency PWM.
Honda must be doing something very different compared to the other PU-suppliers. When you listen to Gasly's onboard lap: there is no turbo whining at all. From the other PU's you can hear it very well during acceleration!
I can remember that the Renault hasnt had it as well, but I think since 2017, they feature this "sound" too.
What do you think, why the Honda-PU doesn't have this turbo-sound?
Mercedes also doesn't have this sound during the acceleration. I think it's because of different PU layouts. Mercedes/Honda with compressor on the front of the engine, and Ferrari/Renault at the back. Since 2018 onboard cameras have 2 sound sources. One of them is located somewhere near the exhaust. In the second case (Ferrari/Renault) compressor playcement is closer to the microphone, and I think this is the reason, why we clearly hear whining sound.
Honda must be doing something very different compared to the other PU-suppliers. When you listen to Gasly's onboard lap: there is no turbo whining at all. From the other PU's you can hear it very well during acceleration!
I can remember that the Renault hasnt had it as well, but I think since 2017, they feature this "sound" too.
What do you think, why the Honda-PU doesn't have this turbo-sound?
you cannot hear it because mic on STR is placed near exhaust. You can hear a bit on downshifting.
Honda must be doing something very different compared to the other PU-suppliers. When you listen to Gasly's onboard lap: there is no turbo whining at all. From the other PU's you can hear it very well during acceleration!
I can remember that the Renault hasnt had it as well, but I think since 2017, they feature this "sound" too.
What do you think, why the Honda-PU doesn't have this turbo-sound?
you cannot hear it because mic on STR is placed near exhaust. You can hear a bit on downshifting.
You can definitely hear it. Put some good headphones on and it becomes immediately audible on any of the straights - I heard it most clearly as he approached the finish line.
It's also much more apparent at the beginning of straights. E.g. listen closely at 1:00-1:05 as he exits Ascari, and again as he exits Parabolica (1:14-1:18); the whine is much higher pitched at these points.
Because of the tight F1 schedules involved, and seeing as the fuel developers are creating using chemical formulations more than physical properties (like say in metallurgy) I also agree that the computer modelling is very difficult if not impossible - not to mention that all the fuel developers would arrive at the same solutions if these models were computer based! - So I am going to hazard a guess and say these formulations are very trial and error.
They are, you still need good methodology for isolating certain compounds. Even if it is computer based, there's plenty of guess work due to the number of reactions and species that happen.
Honda must be doing something very different compared to the other PU-suppliers. When you listen to Gasly's onboard lap: there is no turbo whining at all. From the other PU's you can hear it very well during acceleration!
I can remember that the Renault hasnt had it as well, but I think since 2017, they feature this "sound" too.
What do you think, why the Honda-PU doesn't have this turbo-sound?
you cannot hear it because mic on STR is placed near exhaust. You can hear a bit on downshifting.
You can definitely hear it. Put some good headphones on and it becomes immediately audible on any of the straights - I heard it most clearly as he approached the finish line.
It's also much more apparent at the beginning of straights. E.g. listen closely at 1:00-1:05 as he exits Ascari, and again as he exits Parabolica (1:14-1:18); the whine is much higher pitched at these points.
The turbo itself is pretty silent on the STR onboards, personally I think most of the whine you hear in the video sounds like the electric motors to me, it ramps up in frequency as speed increases, not typical of a turbo at all. It's possible the whine signifies when they are deploying and/or harvesting, whenever the K is active.
You can definitely hear it. Put some good headphones on and it becomes immediately audible on any of the straights - I heard it most clearly as he approached the finish line.
It's also much more apparent at the beginning of straights. E.g. listen closely at 1:00-1:05 as he exits Ascari, and again as he exits Parabolica (1:14-1:18); the whine is much higher pitched at these points.
The turbo itself is pretty silent on the STR onboards, personally I think most of the whine you hear in the video sounds like the electric motors to me, it ramps up in frequency as speed increases, not typical of a turbo at all. It's possible the whine signifies when they are deploying and/or harvesting, whenever the K is active.
The K is attached to the engine, before the transmission, so its sound should step with gearchanges as the ICE and turbo do. Likely what is heard is the final drive gear sound, which would be a constant rise in pitch and amplitude from 0-300kph. The final drive gear is near to the exhaust, and likely also close to the microphone.
You can definitely hear it. Put some good headphones on and it becomes immediately audible on any of the straights - I heard it most clearly as he approached the finish line.
It's also much more apparent at the beginning of straights. E.g. listen closely at 1:00-1:05 as he exits Ascari, and again as he exits Parabolica (1:14-1:18); the whine is much higher pitched at these points.
The turbo itself is pretty silent on the STR onboards, personally I think most of the whine you hear in the video sounds like the electric motors to me, it ramps up in frequency as speed increases, not typical of a turbo at all. It's possible the whine signifies when they are deploying and/or harvesting, whenever the K is active.
The K is attached to the engine, before the transmission, so its sound should step with gearchanges as the ICE and turbo do. Likely what is heard is the final drive gear sound, which would be a constant rise in pitch and amplitude from 0-300kph. The final drive gear is near to the exhaust, and likely also close to the microphone.
Thanks for the correction. That sound did remind me of the Porsche 919 WEC car. Probably not the turbo then.
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 10 Sep 2018, 16:53
by Revs84
Honda with 750 hp in Austin?
Accordingly, Ferrari is in the qualifier with 790 hp from the burner at the top. Mercedes are missing in qualifying trim around 10 hp. Under racing conditions, the two engines are at eye level, except in the moments when Ferrari turns on his afterburner. Renault and Honda still lag behind dramatically. So should the Spec-C version of the Renault V6 in qualifying only come to 730 hp. She only uses Red Bull so far.The B version will be granted only 710 hp.Honda should already be ahead with 715 hp.
While Renault has already shot his powder, Honda will upgrade again. In Austin, the time has come. Extensive test-bench runs over distances of 7,000 kilometers take time. From Honda sources, we hear that the Spec-3 engine is supposed to scratch the 750 horsepower limit.
Accordingly, Ferrari is in the qualifier with 790 hp from the burner at the top. Mercedes are missing in qualifying trim around 10 hp. Under racing conditions, the two engines are at eye level, except in the moments when Ferrari turns on his afterburner. Renault and Honda still lag behind dramatically. So should the Spec-C version of the Renault V6 in qualifying only come to 730 hp. She only uses Red Bull so far.The B version will be granted only 710 hp.Honda should already be ahead with 715 hp.
While Renault has already shot his powder, Honda will upgrade again. In Austin, the time has come. Extensive test-bench runs over distances of 7,000 kilometers take time. From Honda sources, we hear that the Spec-3 engine is supposed to scratch the 750 horsepower limit.
If only...
It would be great to reach the 750-region and get closer to the top.
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 10 Sep 2018, 17:15
by HPD
Basically, these are the numbers Amus says (from his internal sources)
Ferrari_____________790 hp
Mercedes___________780 hp
Honda Spec-3_______750 hp
Renault Spec-C______730 hp
Honda Spec-2_______715 hp
Renault Spec-B______710 hp
Interesting
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 10 Sep 2018, 19:31
by dfegan358
I think Ferrari/ Mercedes engines are so closely matched it’s hard to determine an advantage between the two.
In race trim some argue Mercedes can run marginally more powerful modes for longer in the race than Ferrari but that Ferrari has a slight Q3 advantage.
In reality nobody really knows. I definitely think Honda will be ahead of Renault next year if they are not there already.
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 10 Sep 2018, 19:41
by bigblue
On the one hand, it gives a nice warm feeling to Honda fans (and others who want to see more competition) to see Honda potentially making such a big gain. On the other hand, the set of horsepower figures are probably made up rubbish.
Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software
Posted: 10 Sep 2018, 20:05
by Bill
This numbers look suspect,merc say thy are loosing three tenth to Ferrari in the straight, teams are suppose to be producing more than 1000 bhp , that's 860 if u take electric part, earlier it was said Honda lose only 0.3 tenth to merc . The numbers coming from a German site are biased toward Mercedes,they lose more just a tenth to Ferrari.
