F1technical.net

langwadt wrote:

WilliamsF1 wrote:595 HP @ 10000 rpm Does that mean 725@12000???

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj5 ... 3b3xbj.jpg

the fuel FLOW is maxed out at 10500rpm, the power would be dropping past that

Looks like my calculations 2 years ago werent that bad.
So much for the 900hp people were talking about.
580 to 650 is a good range for all the engines.

ringo wrote:

langwadt wrote:

WilliamsF1 wrote:595 HP @ 10000 rpm Does that mean 725@12000???

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj5 ... 3b3xbj.jpg

the fuel FLOW is maxed out at 10500rpm, the power would be dropping past that

Looks like my calculations 2 years ago werent that bad.
So much for the 900hp people were talking about.
580 to 650 is a good range for all the engines.

Pretty sure we are establishing Honda at ~630 with a reported BHP deficit of any where between 200bhp and 400bhp (lol)

ringo wrote:

langwadt wrote:

WilliamsF1 wrote:595 HP @ 10000 rpm Does that mean 725@12000???

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj5 ... 3b3xbj.jpg

the fuel FLOW is maxed out at 10500rpm, the power would be dropping past that

Looks like my calculations 2 years ago werent that bad.
So much for the 900hp people were talking about.
580 to 650 is a good range for all the engines.

900 was claimed by very few people and when it was claimed it usually included the full 160hp from the MGU-K. Nobody has shown any calculations to support the theory that the MGU-H can provide a sustained 120kw to the MGU-K

Problem is that we don't know how old this image is, if the "throttle" was at 100%,if it is just an ICE number or total PU number. It was just a simple calculation made to see what numbers we would end up with.

The one reason that I believe that all the new generation PU's have more sustained power than this is simple. The acceleration times. If you look at the tracks where the ES has the least effect (such as spa)(as the energy that can be sent from the ES to the MGU-K is at its lowest percentage compared to the energy that the MGU-H can send to the MGU-K) and you look at acceleration times then you will notice that these engines have to be more powerful than the old V8's which we know to produce more than 650hp.

Listening to the Honda, I'm beginning to wonder if they're somehow trying to exploit a small amount of compressor surge to power the MGU-H.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQWYhsYfMxE

Tauri_J wrote:

gruntguru wrote:Fuel heating is standard practice in modern, common rail diesels.

then why BMW diesel's have a fuel cooler?

To cool the fuel.

Tauri_J wrote:

gruntguru wrote: Fuel heating is standard practice in modern, common rail diesels.

then why BMW diesel's have a fuel cooler?

Warmer diesel fuel = better atomization and more efficient diesel burn.
Cooler fuel = longer lasting injection pump.

Unmounted PU:
https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 7417239552

Log exhausts, interesting, guess they learned at least something from MHPE?

But without a working MGU-H to spool up the turbo, turbolag will probably be bad.

Might this be a sign what went wrong here?

This was typically how to do it in the old days, spagetti-style;

godlameroso wrote:Listening to the Honda, I'm beginning to wonder if they're somehow trying to exploit a small amount of compressor surge to power the MGU-H.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQWYhsYfMxE

I doubt it. Compressor surge is generally bad news for a turbo, its also unpredictable in how the compressor will recover from the stalled condition.

Great point axial. Compressor surge is the airflow reversing direction past the compressor when it cannot overcome the pressure delta. Compressor surge is the result of a stalled flow condition as you noted, which is not something the compressor is designed for. Don't see how it would be practical to extract turbo shaft power from this highly transient operating condition.

Unless Honda have a theoretical/dyno shown HCCI efficiency mode factored in to the working medium surge-stall,
with coordinated pulse DFI.. & yet are still stymied in trying to make it work practicably - on track..

riff_raff wrote:Great point axial. Compressor surge is the airflow reversing direction past the compressor when it cannot overcome the pressure delta. Compressor surge is the result of a stalled flow condition as you noted, which is not something the compressor is designed for. Don't see how it would be practical to extract turbo shaft power from this highly transient operating condition.

From the strain it puts on the compressor shaft which is also connected to the MGU-H. In any case whatever they're doing isn't working.

godlameroso wrote:

riff_raff wrote:Great point axial. Compressor surge is the airflow reversing direction past the compressor when it cannot overcome the pressure delta. Compressor surge is the result of a stalled flow condition as you noted, which is not something the compressor is designed for. Don't see how it would be practical to extract turbo shaft power from this highly transient operating condition.

From the strain it puts on the compressor shaft which is also connected to the MGU-H. In any case whatever they're doing isn't working.

Maybe that's what happened in Austrailia before the race started with Magnussen's car. When all those parts went flying .

trinidefender wrote:[...]900 was claimed by very few people and when it was claimed it usually included the full 160hp from the MGU-K. Nobody has shown any calculations to support the theory that the MGU-H can provide a sustained 120kw to the MGU-K

Problem is that we don't know how old this image is, if the "throttle" was at 100%,if it is just an ICE number or total PU number. It was just a simple calculation made to see what numbers we would end up with.[...]

"Throttle" is surely at 100%, picture shows almost 100 kg/h fuel.

But I too think this is not compounded power, it would be too low. However, if it's true that Honda cannot extract much from MGU-H, the compounded power won't be that much more....

Re injection pressure:
In an older a screen is visible in a full "throttle" moment, the MAP being >> 3bar. The pressure even then is 300 bar.