F1technical.net

she_spools_180 wrote: Besides, it seems they have "fixed" the tyres, and there does not seem to be as much of a 'cliff' anymore... which is a bit of a disappointment.. they seemed to get closer and closer to the Bridgestones in terms of durability and wear/degredation, as the season has progressed.

Of course they have. The whole thing at the start of the year was PR BS to explain away the crap tyres.

Ben

ubrben wrote:

she_spools_180 wrote: Besides, it seems they have "fixed" the tyres, and there does not seem to be as much of a 'cliff' anymore... which is a bit of a disappointment.. they seemed to get closer and closer to the Bridgestones in terms of durability and wear/degredation, as the season has progressed.

Of course they have. The whole thing at the start of the year was PR BS to explain away the crap tyres.

Ben

+1

ubrben wrote:

she_spools_180 wrote: Besides, it seems they have "fixed" the tyres, and there does not seem to be as much of a 'cliff' anymore... which is a bit of a disappointment.. they seemed to get closer and closer to the Bridgestones in terms of durability and wear/degredation, as the season has progressed.

Of course they have. The whole thing at the start of the year was PR BS to explain away the crap tyres.

Ben

maybe you're right but the racing was more entertaining then.

Pierce89 wrote:

ubrben wrote:

she_spools_180 wrote: Besides, it seems they have "fixed" the tyres, and there does not seem to be as much of a 'cliff' anymore... which is a bit of a disappointment.. they seemed to get closer and closer to the Bridgestones in terms of durability and wear/degredation, as the season has progressed.

Of course they have. The whole thing at the start of the year was PR BS to explain away the crap tyres.

Ben

maybe you're right but the racing was more entertaining then.

Yes, and having to use absurd amounts of tire fall-off as a crutch for generally and fundamentally poor racing and a very broad field should raise red flags.

Anyway I liked the 'cliff', I think the stuff about the tires being rubbish was uncalled for since they were supposed to be faster wearing. But they do need to fix the marbles problem.
I really hope they do not make all the compounds more durable for next year, those tires were one of the best bits about this year once it became clear vettel would run away with the championship.

we already have a pretty good idea of the changes that pirelli are going to make for 2012 ; the teams have been adapting well to this years tyres so plans are afoot to keep ahead of them

at the last race a slightly improved SOFT was tested ...not that pirelli are unhappy with the existing tyre , on the contrary , the plan is that the slightly improved tyre will be the MEDIUM for 2012
there will again be four compounds in 2012 , pirelli haven't yet announced any other changes but , at a guess , the HARD will disappear ,existing MEDIUM becomes HARD , the MEDIUM as announced , the two softest tyres continuing [ this not clear as they are looking for specific time gaps between the compounds ]

but , in my view ,the biggest change will be the re-profiling of the rear tyres , stated to be to increase rear grip compared to front , with a commensurate increase in understeer

so we can expect to see some interesting pre-season testing , I shall be putting Jerez in my diary

question is , as always , which teams will gain from the changes and which will lose ...even more importantly perhaps , which drivers ?

Hamilton won't like the tyres - his preference for a loose rear goes against the understeer-inducing increase in relative rear grip. Schumacher may have a similar, albeit lesser, problem too.

Who else likes an oversteery setup? Put them on that list as well, IMO.

Tufty wrote:Hamilton won't like the tyres - his preference for a loose rear goes against the understeer-inducing increase in relative rear grip. Schumacher may have a similar, albeit lesser, problem too.

Who else likes an oversteery setup? Put them on that list as well, IMO.

Actually, I think the reverse is true, an increase in the relative quality of the rear tyres means they can be slid out that little bit more without utterly destroying them.

It depends - how would the rear be stronger? More durable, or more grip?

raymondu999 wrote:It depends - how would the rear be stronger? More durable, or more grip?

as stated in the original post pirelli say more grip ....but won't that automatically mean more durability given the same compound as they are getting the change from re- profiling ....so it must mean a bigger contact patch ?

and having thought about this a little , shouldn't button like this ? he likes a firmly planted rear with a bit of understeer , probably webber as well as he is heavy on rear tyres

Planted rear yes. Understeer no.

I get that a bigger contact patch means more grip. But why would it mean more durability?

Based on the fact that most of the teams seem to struggle with understeer not immediately, but after a few laps. My bet is that by saying they're making it more grippy, they mean that they're making it as grippy, and more durable, so that we don't see cars on lap 10 with no rear tyres left any more, but the front end still just fine.

If this is the correct interpretation, then it will play majorly into the hands of the guys that like a loose rear end.

beelsebob wrote:Based on the fact that most of the teams seem to struggle with understeer not immediately, but after a few laps. My bet is that by saying they're making it more grippy, they mean that they're making it as grippy, and more durable, so that we don't see cars on lap 10 with no rear tyres left any more, but the front end still just fine.

If this is the correct interpretation, then it will play majorly into the hands of the guys that like a loose rear end.

if you are correct that most teams seem to suffer from understeer after a number of laps , doesn't that suggest that they need to improve the front , not the rear ?

I thought they all suffered entry instability and loss of traction after a while; given the propensity, this year, of teams to shred the rears first

Blown diffuser will be gone, so more rear tyre grip can't make up that deficit.
The 2012 rears will last longer though, so i can see 2012 suiting shumacher and Hamilton.

Some drivers are going to miss the lack of downforce on the rear, while some will drive around it.