F1technical.net

im sorry not 1994...it was in 1986..watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QaPLeQt4fI

The 2011 cars are pathetic when you take away the DRS, KERS and slicks.
But on downforce figures, I'd say 2005 and 2008 the times of these cars with fuel in is comparable to the current cars on fumes tanks .

2010 even with the DDD and EBD really only looks good also because of the slicks and low fuel.

On an educated guess I would say 2008, as this was the time when the cars were pretty much as developed as they could be within the rules at the time, By this I am referring to the things such as all the winglets all over the sidepods, the huge flow conditioners, lower and wider rear wings, (on a side note I think the current front wings produce more downforce than the smaller wings or pre-2009) If you put the 2008 cars on slicks, and gave them KERS and DRS then I honestly believe they would be the fastest of all times... maybe

2011 cars have the greatest low-speed downforce, exluding "full venturis and sliding shirts" years.

In '08 many teams managed to be competitive, and assuming that downforce is a difficult thing to have, this say Ferrari and McLaren were far from the limit they could have obtained; while in '10 RB6 probably took every bit of downforce they could had.
So I say that *potentially* '08 regulation had more downforce, but it wasn't fully taken.

amouzouris wrote:im sorry not 1994...it was in 1986..watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QaPLeQt4fI

You're still correct, downforce was all time high in 1994 before the death of Senna.

For most downforce in later years it's more difficult to say, but my guess would be 2004. That's before new aerodynamic regulations where introduced and engine output was high enough to allow more downforce to be produced at the expense of drag.

amouzouris wrote:1980 was certainly not the year with most downforce as i remember very well watching a video of Ross Brawn in 1994 i think and he was saying that cars now (1994) have as much downforce as the ground effect cars only with a lot more drag...

Right, if Ross Brawn said so...jeez, I've gotta follow jumbo's xample soon...

xpensive wrote:Right, if Ross Brawn said so...

It's Ross Brawn, the all-seeing oracle..........

Ross Brawn said so like what 16 years ago? I bet he didn't know of the 2008 cars back then

In all seriousness the 2008 cars were the peak of downforce IMO... the front wings were not as low so it loses a bit in that - but most teams had effectly two wings!so that made up a bit. Then there were the huge diffuser, the huge rear wing, the winglets, the gills in the body work...



Look at the barge boards!

n smikle wrote:Ross Brawn said so like what 16 years ago? I bet he didn't know of the 2008 cars back then

In all seriousness the 2008 cars were the peak of downforce IMO... the front wings were not as low so it loses a bit in that - but most teams had effectly two wings!so that made up a bit. Then there were the huge diffuser, the huge rear wing, the winglets, the gills in the body work...



Look at the barge boards!

I'd say 2004 had more downforce than 2008 but 08 probably had better efficiency. Most of the lap records are shumi 04. The v10's could carry a lot more drag(and hence downforce). 2004 also had lower front wings.

I wouldnt say the 2004 cars had more df, the cars had much smaller wings, cascades were unknown back then, sidepods were way larger too and the sidepod wings were much smaller then.

the 2008 were much more refined and more evolved, like most said probably the end of the whole cycle that was possible with those.

Since around 2003 Aero came before mechanicals, and with the loss of df in 2005 teams were even more focussed on df, causing much more different configurations, just to keep the top speeds high enough, even sacrificing top speed. Since the 360(or was it 380)kph record set at Monza in 2004 teams never came close to that, I beleive since 2005 teams topped 340 max

wesley123 wrote:I wouldnt say the 2004 cars had more df, the cars had much smaller wings, cascades were unknown back then, sidepods were way larger too and the sidepod wings were much smaller then.

the 2008 were much more refined and more evolved, like most said probably the end of the whole cycle that was possible with those.

Since around 2003 Aero came before mechanicals, and with the loss of df in 2005 teams were even more focussed on df, causing much more different configurations, just to keep the top speeds high enough, even sacrificing top speed. Since the 360(or was it 380)kph record set at Monza in 2004 teams never came close to that, I beleive since 2005 teams topped 340 max

The multiple aero appendendages in the 06-08 v8 era were aimed more at aero efficiency than pure DF. The v10's allowed them to pull around more DF. I'd say 04 has slightly higher peak DF while the 08 would have better efficiency, but I also read that the DDD allowed the 2010 cars to have the best efficiency of the flat floor era.

Would be interesting if we could find apex speeds at Copse.

08 and 10 took it flat. 04 i don´t think they ever took it flat but the speed through the corner could have been higher due to the extra 200 horsepower 2004 cars had.

I would say 2010 probably had the most grip due to the tires helping quite alot and probably masks alot of the speed todays cars loose on straights.

n smikle wrote:

wow, this is orgasmic
that is absolutely BEAUTIFUL!!

HampusA wrote:Would be interesting if we could find apex speeds at Copse.

08 and 10 took it flat. 04 i don´t think they ever took it flat but the speed through the corner could have been higher due to the extra 200 horsepower 2004 cars had.

I would say 2010 probably had the most grip due to the tires helping quite alot and probably masks alot of the speed todays cars loose on straights.

Is the difference really 200hp!!?? That is a really huge amount in a car roughly 600kg? (very approximate), On that basis alone I would say that the engines contributed a lot more in terms of laptimes than the aero in the '04 era, out of curiosity, does anyone have any laptime comparisons for high downforce circuits, (monaco for example)? for the 2 era's in question, as the general consensus seems to be torn between '04 & '08, (and possibly '10?)

i dont think monaco is a real downforce track...mechanical grip plays a bigger role....id say hungaroring is a genuine downforce curcuit!