F1technical.net

Ciro Pabón wrote: If SLC has something to say, he will.

So, welcome SLC.

And of course, welcome breezyracer. I hadn't time to say it before: your posts are straight to the point. It seems to me you are a valuable new member of this forum and the thread on diffusers you participated on has bring new people that has illuminated us a lot. Keep up the posts and, (if you allow me to say it, again, with the best of intentions) be mellow to newbies!

You're quite right Ciro. I shall sit on my hands a bit when it comes to challenging newbies. We'll let SLC participate on his terms and only take him for whatever he appears to be. Thanks

kinda makes me wonder what F1 team aerodynamisist would have the time or desire to read an F1 technical forum, especially at this time of year?

Mick

Ciro Pabón wrote: I fail to see the sarcasm (and I love it!). C'mon f1.redbaron, I don't think SLC is complaining about the quality, he is saying thanks. After all, Reca was so kind as to spend some of his time on us and we all know the caliber of his posts (I have no idea of CFD, but I know a couple of things about roads).

SLC registered in order to ridicule the members of this forum. That, in my opinion, is very sad if he is, in fact, an aerodynamicist. If he is pretending, then it is just childish.

The thing that bothers me is that I come to this forum to learn. I have made it no secret that I'm one of the least knowledgeable guys on this forum, but I try to learn - from you, Dave, Reca, etc. So, when I see somebody a newbie (remember Ranger/Acer - whatever happened to him?) disrespecting others on their first post, it pi**es me off.

Well, redbaron, to be frank, me too.

However, I am more amused than any other thing: you know, at my workplace, EVERY time somebody says something like "I must know better than you because I have done blah, blah, blah..." we cordially knock him in the head a couple of times and say in one voice: "This is engineering, not religion! You can't claim authorithy here! You have to convince us!".

This is not trivial in science or engineering: it is good for the person explaining as much as for the person asking, actually, it is like some kind of duty. This is what I meant with the idea of "you learn more when you explain something than when you learn it for the first time".

I believe this is (thanks heaven!) the environment you and others have developed in this forum. After a while, we know who knows (I know you know who knows about what... ) and we are not afraid to ask and learn: heck, that's why we are here. This site is a resource for all of us, not a parade of egos.

This is why I agree with you that the idea of somebody saying "I know better than you because I am the son of Superman" is not good at all.

On the other hand, feelings are hard to convey with writing and SLC is not commenting directly on the quality of the threads here or even arguing about them. The word "entertaining", that SLC uses has different meanings in different languages (at least, in Spanish is more like "divertido" ("amusing"?) than "chistoso" ("funny"?). Same with "chuckling" as opposed to "laughing". I normally try to take any post with a grain of salt and this is all I invite you to do.

For me, to have a professional guy reading my comments, and NOT making any comments of his own on the issue at hand, corroborates them. This, or the guy is lazy or, worse yet, tacky about knowledge. I don't presume SLC to be anything else than a cordial guy (unless he proves me wrong ).

Finally, yeah, I remember Ranger/Acer...

Marcus Tullius Cicero, De Officiis (On Duties) wrote:Above all, the search after truth and its eager pursuit are peculiar to man. And so, when we have leisure from the demands of business cares, we are eager to see, to hear, to learn something new, and we esteem a desire to know the secrets or wonders of creation as indispensable to a happy life. Thus we come to understand that what is true, simple, and genuine appeals most strongly to a man's nature.

To this passion for discovering truth there is added a hungering, as it were, for independence, so that a mind well-moulded by Nature is unwilling to be subject to anybody save one who gives advice or is a teacher of truth or who, for the general good, rules according to justice and law.

I believe that the first paragraph describes why the forum could attract the likes of SLC (if he is who he claims to be) and the second one describes your attitude.

When SLC joined the forum I "ironically" took it as an opportunity to Thank the Forum . Amusing -- Yes? While I hoped to welcome him. Our members who thought he was ridiculing us -- toughen up. Has he "Rangered Us" -- I don't think so. If his gentle chiding offends you. Well,
learn patience. He hasn't made many entries. Wait for more of his entries.
I judge people by what they say and do. Give him a chance. Maybe he chuckles at lunch because his fellow workers marvel at our expertise.
Maybe some of them are saying _ " When they get out of school -- we are going to get some help" or "Watch out -- these F1Tech guy's will have our jobs, if we are not careful."

Edited

SLC wrote:I can't say which team I work for.

How convenient, prick.

In defence of SLC, they can't offer free advice or even reveal their employer. Since they would represent their employer, there are rules of disclosure, confidentiality, and even conduct they are bound to.

Scuderia_Russ wrote:

SLC wrote:I can't say which team I work for.

How convenient, prick.

Cool -

Take the upside view; guys like SLC can really help with any discussion (and please do). There are plenty of others here who know enough to sniff out a fake. Until then I'm very glad we have technical people posting here (that's what got me here in the first place) - I've certainly learned a lot.

I don't care which team he works for - except that I heard Adrian Newey's nickname is "So Long Chaps"

I don't care what SLC means, its not important, but it would be nice if you could give us a few pointers on aerodynamics seeing as you obviously know alot about it.

Whoa whoa whoa there is a lot of rage and misunderstanding here.

First of all, I do work for a leading F1 team in the Aero department. For contractual reasons I can't say which team, nor can I say exactly the nature of my position. If you chose not to believe this then fine, I don't really care.

I didn't come here to ridicule the forum members. I was merely letting you know that your comments are being read by people high up in the F1 industry. A few of you clearly know what you are talking about, some of you have ideas that kind of go in the right direction, and some of you have no idea what you are on about whatsoever. When arguments arise from a situation like this it is a little on the humorous side.

That is all.

Welcome SLC,

probably i was one of the main "clowns" to give the experts something to smile about on the diffuser thread... As I said in my first post, I am not an expert in aero, just an interested observer with a scientific background.

I am grateful to Reca (and the others) who took the time to educate me in some of the basics (and I must confess I have spent some hours chewing the issues over in my head...). I still have some conceptual difficulties with the undertray mechanism of action but on the whole I am content - it obviously does "what it says on the tin", so the only remaining problem is for me to understand the philosophy behind it. If I gave some others a smile, I'm happy... and a little wiser. Thanks again to my teachers.

Having said that, I would encourage those who know to offer their wisdom to those of us that don't, such things are learned rather than inate. There are few who have both deep and wide ranging expertise, and it never hurts to learn new stuff.

So... SLC, let's see your post count go up and cast some pearls before us

Onwards and upwards (as someone must have said!)

SLC wrote:Whoa whoa whoa there is a lot of rage and misunderstanding here.

I apologize for any misunderstanding. Your welcoming is a lesson on forum etiquette (at least for me).

Try to understand we have had our share of incredibly weird people posting here (including me, I suppose ). Besides, webmaster and moderators have an "enlightened" policy that gives considerable freedom, and you never know how people is feeling. You would assume that a discussion on Navier - Stokes equations could be limited to facts. How ingenuous of you!

I think I've learnt a lot from these discussions (and some english grammar...).

You'll see: you have to design a road taking in account that, when you put together 5.000 people in a road, some of them have had a call warning him that his son broke an arm, or his apartment is on fire, or is dreaming about what happened 5 minutes ago with his/her lover... This means all road signs, pavement marks and even the alignment of the road have to be done with those persons in mind. Perhaps this should be a permanent approach to "public" engineering design...

So, in a forum, you'll allways cross someone's path, many times for lack of understanding or for weird circumstances, if the forum is big enough. In this case, the only way out is to limit yourself to provide information (an advice I'm not following myself right now... ).

There is another thing: you cannot know how many of the people around share what you're thinking; you tend to think that the person arguing with you represents the view of the entire forum, so the debate always seems out of proportion.

So, a warm welcome to the many new members the "aerodynamic" thread brought. Please, post, by all means. If I am a representative of the general public, then you wouldn't believe the size of our ignorance on one of the more relevant aspects of modern racing. You don't even have to come close to your "confidentiality" knowledge to "illustrate" a little the forum...

Ciro Pabón wrote:I apologize for any misunderstanding. Your welcoming is a lesson on forum etiquette (at least for me).

It's called sarcasm

SLC, I'm unhappy that your experience in this forum has left a bitter taste in your mouth. It's a shame, that misunderstandings and negative emotions came into play. That's sometimes what happens when communication isn't working properly.
I do welcome you (guys) with sincere warmth, I hope that from this point forwards things get better.
Now I do have a question concerning aerodynamics. If Pamela Anderson was placed in a horizontal position with her arms extended (just like Superman, but we'll call her Superbreasts), does she produce lift, and is the drag very high? And if she blew out a bra strap, would the flutter be catastrophic?