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Re: Edwards' Talladega Crash
Posted: 29 Apr 2009, 18:53
by Ciro Pabón
modbaraban wrote:On a side note... How on earth a car with bloody spec aero is unsafe enough to go airborne during a trivial spin?!
Note: the car took off
before the second black Chevy hit it. (video @ 1:22)
I saw the crash live. Spectators were showered with debris. I made a mental note of never, ever buying a front row ticket at restrictor races.
Modbaraban, the flaps in the roof are there for that kind of spins, as you know. They take a couple of seconds to open.
The flaps work once the car has rotated around 140 degrees, that was more or less the moment of the second "touch".
The first flap axis (the one in the right of the picture) is oriented more or less at 140 degrees respect to the car axis. It works once the car has rotated that amount. Notice we're watching the car from the rear.
Once this first flap opens, "it disrupts the airflow over the roof, killing all of the lift. An area of high pressure forms in front of the flap. This high-pressure air blows through a tube that connects to the pocket holding the second flap, causing the second flap to deploy. The second flap, which is oriented at 180 degrees, makes sure that the car continues to kill the lift as it rotates. After the car has spun around once, it has usually slowed to the point that it no longer produces lift."
You can clearly see the roof flaps opening at the exact second you mention. The second flap had just opened when the car was hit. Besides, the car started to go down when it was hit. If the car hadn't been hit, flaps would have done their work.
BTW,
I've wondered many times why F1 cars have not some kind of flaps that prevent them from going airborne. I've suggested to put them in the tray, as I think that the only kind of mortal accident "left" after so many security measures, is the one in which an F1 car goes airborne and lands on its roof.
Re: Edwards' Talladega Crash
Posted: 29 Apr 2009, 20:45
by Belatti
Thats right Ray, I´m all for safety in the sport but everyone should assume they are doing risky things. Even spectators. If not they always have a good couch, chips and beer at home.
You can not be more papist than the pope.
Re: Edwards' Talladega Crash
Posted: 29 Apr 2009, 20:47
by tk421
zoic wrote:It actually looked like it was going down before Newman hit him, which made it catch more air and start flying.
Yeah Newman was pretty lucky that Carl's car wasn't another foot up in the air otherwise it may have busted right through his windshield...Pretty scary that is.
Ray, someone asked you what your avatar was, I'm a little curious myself. Enlighten us?
Re: Edwards' Talladega Crash
Posted: 29 Apr 2009, 21:35
by Metar
I'm so bummed that I watched the whole race, except the first and last 30 laps. I missed both the big one and the 'deciding one' - though there was some exciting stuff mid-race, like the Hamlin/Junior/Busch battles (my muscle memory typed Hamilton at first).
Two things I don't get about the two major accidents:
a) Restrictors. Sure, it's dangerous to run the whole field within a second or two at 200mph - that's what happens when the car's speed in a corner is power&aero-limited instead of grip-limited - but wouldn't unrestricted cars hit over 230MPH? I recall they let Rusty Wallace do a few laps on an unrestricted car once, and he said the experience was "uncontrollable" (perhaps he was just a little
Rusty?
)... It's a tradeoff. Huge packs, or impossible speeds - or leaving these tracks, which, at least out of tradition, they'll never do.
b) Roof-flaps in the Edwards crash. I don't see the problem with them... Edwards went backwards, producing lift, and slightly rose - but the flaps opened just at the right time for him to sink back down. The only reason this spin became extraordinary and scary is because he was crashed into just when he started "sinking" - and
that is what threw him into the fence.
Re: Edwards' Talladega Crash
Posted: 30 Apr 2009, 06:48
by Ray
Belatti wrote:Thats right Ray, I´m all for safety in the sport but everyone should assume they are doing risky things. Even spectators. If not they always have a good couch, chips and beer at home.
You can not be more papist than the pope.
I'm not sure what the pope thing means. Are you joking? I don't understand
Re: Edwards' Talladega Crash
Posted: 30 Apr 2009, 07:02
by xpensive
I'm of course with Dave K here, why I in all honesty can't understand what you guys are so upset about?
Close racing, nudging, bumping and sometimes spinning-out-crashing is part of NASCAR just as a good tackle and the occational injury is part of Ice-hockey. It cames with territory of evenly-matched ovalracing with full bodywork, why the crowd loves it.
Re: Edwards' Talladega Crash
Posted: 31 May 2009, 13:52
by Scuderia_Russ
Rubbin's racing.
Re: Edwards' Talladega Crash
Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 04:35
by flynfrog
DaveKillens wrote:This is typical NASCAR. Somehow, many fans love this kind of racing held at Daytona and Talladega. I'm not going to argue whether this format is real racing or manufactured excitement, just that it goes on.
But this kind of accident has happened before. For instance ..... at Daytona in 2000.
DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. (AP) -- A terrifying crash at the first-ever truck race at Daytona sent flames and debris into the grandstand Friday, injuring nine fans and two drivers.
Geoffrey Bodine's truck slammed into the wall near the finish line at about 190 mph and cartwheeled wildly down the track in flame.. in the same manner as Ayrton Senna was in Formula One.
I was there in person. The photos and videos make it seem rather tame. It was terrifying I remeber seeing the drivers arms out of the cage as it tumbled past me I thought he was dead.
Re: Edwards' Talladega Crash
Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 06:01
by Ray
flynfrog wrote:DaveKillens wrote:This is typical NASCAR. Somehow, many fans love this kind of racing held at Daytona and Talladega. I'm not going to argue whether this format is real racing or manufactured excitement, just that it goes on.
But this kind of accident has happened before. For instance ..... at Daytona in 2000.
DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. (AP) -- A terrifying crash at the first-ever truck race at Daytona sent flames and debris into the grandstand Friday, injuring nine fans and two drivers.
Geoffrey Bodine's truck slammed into the wall near the finish line at about 190 mph and cartwheeled wildly down the track in flame.. in the same manner as Ayrton Senna was in Formula One.
I was there in person. The photos and videos make it seem rather tame. It was terrifying I remeber seeing the drivers arms out of the cage as it tumbled past me I thought he was dead.
*EDIT: Sorry wrong crash.
Re: Edwards' Talladega Crash
Posted: 14 Jun 2009, 17:38
by Shrek
Well that's what Carl is, a bring the trophy or steering wheel back home kind of guy (kind of makes it exciting doesn't it, everything except the crashing)