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Re: Cockpit Safety
Posted: 27 Jul 2009, 05:10
by djos
before I get accused of being anti saftey again:
My point is you cant engineer out freak accidents - hence the term "freak".
Sensible precautions should always be taken but advocating silly things like bubble canopies for open wheel cars to guard against "freak" accidents is just silly!
Re: Cockpit Safety
Posted: 27 Jul 2009, 05:27
by djos
The sensible option would be a return to proper windscreens like they used to have on indy cars that would be attached to the current removable side protection device - these would at least deflect any objects ove the car and away from the drivers head and be easily removable in an emergency.
eg:
Re: Cockpit Safety
Posted: 27 Jul 2009, 09:17
by James_graham
Didn't the spring hit massa on the top of the visor? that is still exposed in this picture!
Re: Cockpit Safety
Posted: 27 Jul 2009, 10:34
by djos
James_graham wrote:Didn't the spring hit massa on the top of the visor? that is still exposed in this picture!
The pic is for illustrative purposes and apparently the spring ricocheted off the inside of the driver protection mouldings and then impacted his head above his left eye.
Re: Cockpit Safety
Posted: 27 Jul 2009, 10:40
by James_graham
Bad accident, I do agree with djos tho that it is a freak accident. Not sure necessary to just cover the cockpit. Didn't know about that btw djos!
http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/ ... 5/681.html I guess A small windscreen may have sorted it out
Re: Cockpit Safety
Posted: 27 Jul 2009, 16:46
by timbo
djos wrote:James_graham wrote:Didn't the spring hit massa on the top of the visor? that is still exposed in this picture!
The pic is for illustrative purposes and apparently the spring ricocheted off the inside of the driver protection mouldings and then impacted his head above his left eye.
Yes, I thought about something like that, and a second roll-hoop above and ahead driver's head. It must be placed such that fast driver extraction is still possible but large objects like wheels may not penetrate into driver's compartment.
Re: Cockpit Safety
Posted: 28 Jul 2009, 07:12
by PlatinumZealot
KevlarUSA wrote:
The future?
[/quote]
I like this! just leave on top of the drivers head open enough For air to come out, and closed enough so a tyre can't encroach.
It can also be made so that it is easy to push up and open.
Re: Cockpit Safety
Posted: 28 Jul 2009, 07:49
by paused
KevlarUSA wrote:
The future?
Question. What would you do if the screen was covered with oil or fluid. Drivers have visor tear offs for a reason. You could bet the aero department wouldn't want some windscreen wiper messing with their aero at 250Kms.
Re: Cockpit Safety
Posted: 28 Jul 2009, 17:20
by ISLAMATRON
James_graham wrote:Didn't the spring hit massa on the top of the visor? that is still exposed in this picture!
The spring first hit the nose of the F60, so yes a windscreen such as the in the pic would have made a differnce, how much? That is only speculation.
Re: Cockpit Safety
Posted: 28 Jul 2009, 17:25
by ISLAMATRON
paused wrote:Question. What would you do if the screen was covered with oil or fluid. Drivers have visor tear offs for a reason. You could bet the aero department wouldn't want some windscreen wiper messing with their aero at 250Kms.
Rain-x, or some new F-1 version of it... Rain-F
It rains hippos & elephants here in Miami, and I dont have windsheild wipers on my racecar, just the lastest gel formula rain-x and anti fog on the inside.
Re: Cockpit Safety
Posted: 28 Jul 2009, 20:24
by wrcsti
ISLAMATRON wrote:paused wrote:Question. What would you do if the screen was covered with oil or fluid. Drivers have visor tear offs for a reason. You could bet the aero department wouldn't want some windscreen wiper messing with their aero at 250Kms.
Rain-x, or some new F-1 version of it... Rain-F
It rains hippos & elephants here in Miami, and I dont have windsheild wipers on my racecar, just the lastest gel formula rain-x and anti fog on the inside.
I live in Broward (right above miami) and agree. I wax my windshield and apply rain X spray and rain X washer fluid. Airplanes have such a thing, the A320 my dad flies has bottles so strong if they leak it is an immediate health hazzard to anyone in the plane.
Re: Cockpit Safety
Posted: 28 Jul 2009, 20:34
by DaveKillens
Re: Cockpit Safety
Posted: 28 Jul 2009, 20:51
by ISLAMATRON
DaveKillens wrote:
the roll hoop is a great idea but then we get back to the problem of a quick easy extraction
wrcsti: I'm in Broward too, take your car to the new Moroso yet?
Re: Cockpit Safety
Posted: 28 Jul 2009, 22:15
by tarzoon
Taking examples from other sports, in boxing the fighters don't use helmets. When demanded (i.e. olympic games), they use a protection, but still they have to protect themselves with their hands (broken noses are still common, for example). In rugby, the players don't use helmets either and they want to have limited protections, so that everybody has full awareness of the extent they can hurt themselves or others (special exemption for the red lions
).
The problem with these protections is that they may cause a false sense of safety and distract the drivers in some ways (oil is the first one that I thought of), causing other types of freak accidents.
Re: Cockpit Safety
Posted: 28 Jul 2009, 23:54
by Belatti
Here some idea that a friend sent to FOTA:
He also wrote:
Manchild wrote:"This would be more than enough to prevent impacts from both sides as well as from above (Surtees). Add to that thick, raised and angled windshield and there you have safe F1 with open cockpit. Helmets would still be visible, drivers could wave and give hand signals on pre-start failure, and the fire extinguisher system could work without choking the driver.
All that's needed is an angled windshield which would launch/ricochet flying objects upwards or sideways.
As you can see, I've suggested slightly raised snorkel. Drivers already bend their head forward when getting in or out of the car due to specific body position. This is just a quick sketch, it could be tested how much space between the snorkel and the helmet should be left.
Just move the snorkel forward as mush as possible, and connect it with existing shoulder/head protector - that's what I'm suggesting. It would be fugly like old Walter Wolf cars but safe."
And gave me some old example (like some others we have seen recently):
Thanks Manchild!!!