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Re: 2012 Stalled wings & F/ W ducts
Posted: 28 Mar 2012, 17:56
by siskue2005
raymondu999 wrote:The Merc duct is supposedly reducing front downforce; so that both front AND rear downforce is reduced. The drag help is minimal.
But what happens is there are some corners where you can take flat out even with DRS on. Example is the last corner in Catalunya last year for the Red Bull. But sometimes there are corners where you could technically still go through the corner flat out; but because the front still has so much grip; you can't turn the car enough to make the corner without destabilising the rear. By reducing the front downforce as well you're restoring that balance.
And also it increases the front ride height , which with rear DRS leads to decreased drag
Plus it gives them option to run low ride heights
it is also speculated that they also have passive Fwing duct, which in a race will increase the front ride height...allowing them to run lower ride height
Re: 2012 Stalled wings & F/ W ducts
Posted: 28 Mar 2012, 19:04
by raymondu999
siskue2005 wrote:Plus it gives them option to run low ride heights
I don't know about your second passive system you mentioned, but this one isn't happening. They have to set it up for rideheights that will take place in the race without drs.
Re: 2012 Stalled wings & F/ W ducts
Posted: 28 Mar 2012, 19:07
by hardingfv32
siskue2005 wrote:And also it increases the front ride height , which with rear DRS leads to decreased drag Plus it gives them option to run low ride heights
I do not accept the option to run lower ride heights. For this to happen the system would need to be deployed (during the race) at those points where wear to the plank is created, track irregularities, curbs, etc.
Brian
Re: 2012 Stalled wings & F/ W ducts
Posted: 28 Mar 2012, 19:19
by PlatinumZealot
This image is proof that they did not use the F-duct in testing.
Re: 2012 Stalled wings & F/ W ducts
Posted: 29 Mar 2012, 12:00
by markc
sorry if this has been posed before but that image looks photoshop-ed to me. The reservoirs look odd and non 3d, the ducting tube ends also look strange.
Enhancing a picture to lighten darkened areas is one thing, but making a hybrid image or even inventing parts of the image should negate any proof the image implies.
Re: 2012 Stalled wings & F/ W ducts
Posted: 29 Mar 2012, 17:42
by hardingfv32
What does seam VERY odd is that the ducts are held in place with tie wraps! Maybe the cover that we have seen plays a role in the mating with the nose. Just odd that the cover is sold in the front.
Brian
Re: 2012 Stalled wings & F/ W ducts
Posted: 29 Mar 2012, 18:22
by siskue2005
markc wrote:sorry if this has been posed before but that image looks photoshop-ed to me. The reservoirs look odd and non 3d, the ducting tube ends also look strange.
Enhancing a picture to lighten darkened areas is one thing, but making a hybrid image or even inventing parts of the image should negate any proof the image implies.
It is legit,its taken form a legit site
Re: 2012 Stalled wings & F/ W ducts
Posted: 30 Mar 2012, 00:27
by Crucial_Xtreme
siskue2005 wrote:
And also it increases the front ride height , which with rear DRS leads to decreased drag
Plus it gives them option to run low ride heights
it is also speculated that they also have passive Fwing duct, which in a race will increase the front ride height...allowing them to run lower ride height
With the Mercedes DRS-Duct system, the reduced downforce at the front wing will help the car because the rake will stay the same. The slots on the FW are on the second profile. So in a way it acts like the rear wing DRS, when the flap opens it stalls the first profile of the RW. The same happens with the front wing. So obviously like Raymund said, it will help in the fast corners for sure.
Re: 2012 Stalled wings & F/ W ducts
Posted: 30 Mar 2012, 00:57
by hardingfv32
Crucial_Xtreme wrote:siskue2005 wrote:
And also it increases the front ride height , which with rear DRS leads to decreased drag
Plus it gives them option to run low ride heights
it is also speculated that they also have passive Fwing duct, which in a race will increase the front ride height...allowing them to run lower ride height
With the Mercedes DRS-Duct system, the reduced downforce at the front wing will help the car because the rake will stay the same. The slots on the FW are on the second profile. So in a way it acts like the rear wing DRS, when the flap opens it stalls the first profile of the RW. The same happens with the front wing. So obviously like Raymund said, it will help in the fast corners for sure.
Come on now, the reduction in downforce/drag at the FW can only be a fraction of that created by the DRS flap opening. With the DRS flap we are talking about a major change of the Angle of Attach of a full width wing section, while at the front we are talking about stalling a portion of one (two?) wing elements. We also have no idea how much stall is be induced.
Brian
Re: 2012 Stalled wings & F/ W ducts
Posted: 30 Mar 2012, 01:12
by Crucial_Xtreme
hardingfv32 wrote:
Come on now, the reduction in downforce/drag at the FW can only be a fraction of that created by the DRS flap opening. With the DRS flap we are talking about a major change of the Angle of Attach of a full width wing section, while at the front we are talking about stalling a portion of one (two?) wing elements. We also have no idea how much stall is be induced.
Brian
I wasn't implying that the the stall on the respective wings was equal. Only saying that with the slots under the FW second element, for those that aren't sure about how the system works, they could visualize it much like what takes place when the flap opens on the rear wing DRS. Nothing more nothing less.
Re: 2012 Stalled wings & F/ W ducts
Posted: 30 Mar 2012, 18:21
by MercAMGF1Fans
I was there on ON SUNDAY!!!
saw the F-Duct
Re: 2012 Stalled wings & F/ W ducts
Posted: 30 Mar 2012, 20:47
by markc
nice pic, looks so much more real there.
I still stand by what I said - edited images / hybrid images offer no proof, however, I'm happy to be proved wrong that the image is real.
Re: 2012 Stalled wings & F/ W ducts
Posted: 30 Mar 2012, 21:39
by Crucial_Xtreme
markc wrote:nice pic, looks so much more real there.
I still stand by what I said - edited images / hybrid images offer no proof, however, I'm happy to be proved wrong that the image is real.
The fact it comes directly from a reputable site proves it's real. You can also see earlier pictures clearly showed that those ducts exist, only there was a carbon cover shielding their view. But to say that a site as large & respected as NextGenAuto "photoshopped" the Mercedes is rather disrespectful.
http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/gall ... 5mar-1.php
Re: 2012 Stalled wings & F/ W ducts
Posted: 30 Mar 2012, 22:04
by MercAMGF1Fans
markc wrote:nice pic, looks so much more real there.
I still stand by what I said - edited images / hybrid images offer no proof, however, I'm happy to be proved wrong that the image is real.
well it was REAL.. I saw it first hand.. also, I wasn't allowed to take pics of the Back of the car.. gotta say.. the back IS more interesting than the front.
Re: 2012 Stalled wings & F/ W ducts
Posted: 30 Mar 2012, 22:07
by MercAMGF1Fans
Crucial_Xtreme wrote:markc wrote:nice pic, looks so much more real there.
I still stand by what I said - edited images / hybrid images offer no proof, however, I'm happy to be proved wrong that the image is real.
The fact it comes directly from a reputable site proves it's real. You can also see earlier pictures clearly showed that those ducts exist, only there was a carbon cover shielding their view. But to say that a site as large & respected as NextGenAuto "photoshopped" the Mercedes is rather disrespectful.
http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/gall ... 5mar-1.php
and here's a pic with the cover ON
on Nico's car
P.S Right click to view larger
