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Any word from Honda about some tokens to be used for the Japan GP? Thanks.

From somewhere I heard that its dificult for them to spend the few remaining tokens.
They would need much more and therefore they can only spend them for the next season.

Tauri_J wrote:

gruntguru wrote: Fuel heating is standard practice in modern, common rail diesels.

then why BMW diesel's have a fuel cooler?

Normally on high pressure common rail diesel engines the fuel cooler is to cool the fuel returning from the fuel rail to the tank. When you compress fuel to the extremely high pressures they use it is heated significantly and to just dump that back into the fuel tank over time would result in quite high fuel tank temps.

Abarth wrote:From somewhere I heard that its dificult for them to spend the few remaining tokens.
They would need much more and therefore they can only spend them for the next season.

I think I've read somewhere few months ago that they will use some tokens for the Japan GP, or maybe its just my imagination working at the moment.

Thanks anyway.

Abarth wrote:From somewhere I heard that its dificult for them to spend the few remaining tokens.
They would need much more and therefore they can only spend them for the next season.

Is it confirmed that the unused tokens can be carried forward into 2016?

MHR650 wrote:

Tauri_J wrote:

gruntguru wrote:Fuel heating is standard practice in modern, common rail diesels.

then why BMW diesel's have a fuel cooler?

Normally on high pressure common rail diesel engines the fuel cooler is to cool the fuel returning from the fuel rail to the tank. When you compress fuel to the extremely high pressures they use it is heated significantly and to just dump that back into the fuel tank over time would result in quite high fuel tank temps.

Most of the heat is due to the fuel being deliberately heated just prior to the fuel rail.

PlatinumZealot wrote:

Abarth wrote:From somewhere I heard that its dificult for them to spend the few remaining tokens.
They would need much more and therefore they can only spend them for the next season.

Is it confirmed that the unused tokens can be carried forward into 2016?

No.

The tokens have to be spent this season, before the new tokens are allocated.

This bizarre Token system for the PUs, I seriously wonder who dreamt up that, was i Max Mosley himself or who?

Sixbarboost wrote:This bizarre Token system for the PUs, I seriously wonder who dreamt up that, was i Max Mosley himself or who?

Nah, of old spanky dreamed it up, it might have made sense.

djos wrote:

Sixbarboost wrote:This bizarre Token system for the PUs, I seriously wonder who dreamt up that, was i Max Mosley himself or who?

Nah, of old spanky dreamed it up, it might have made sense.

I think that the token system was put in to reduce costs and to prevent an PU suppliers like Merc from having a more powerful PU than a team they are supplying like Williams. I think it isn't a bad system but it requires a certain amount of equality between PUs before it makes sense.

Oddly enough Ferrari and Merc in season token upgrades have resulted in DNFs (Roseberg at Monza and Kimi....I don remember where..Spa maybe). You could probably add Renault to that, they brought a token upgrade to Australia that ended in tears.

I don't think that anybody considered that there would be this large a disparity between PUs.


There was an agreement at SPA to allow NO token restriction for the whole 2016 season for both Renault and Honda. At that time Arai said he didn't want special privileges. Maybe he just didn't like the wording, the way Honda was being singled out and wants more in general terms like "new PU suppliers". Those discussions were to be continued. So I think that's gonna happen for next year.

diffuser wrote:

djos wrote:

Sixbarboost wrote:This bizarre Token system for the PUs, I seriously wonder who dreamt up that, was i Max Mosley himself or who?

Nah, of old spanky dreamed it up, it might have made sense.

I think that the token system was put in to reduce costs and to prevent an PU suppliers like Merc from having a more powerful PU than a team they are supplying like Williams. I think it isn't a bad system but it requires a certain amount of equality between PUs before it makes sense..

I don't see how the token system reduces either cost or multiple spec PU's. If you are willing to spend the money then the currency you are limited by are the tokens and then in order yield maximum return on your tokens you need to do RnD into all avenues. This is further amplified by the ever decreasing amount of tokens year to year. So long as you have in season engine development and a limited number of engines per season you will always have some disparity in the spec of engines among teams.

From a fan event earlier today, any idea which spec is it?

Hmmmmmm the " Jewel"

Cold Fussion wrote:
I don't see how the token system reduces either cost or multiple spec PU's. If you are willing to spend the money then the currency you are limited by are the tokens and then in order yield maximum return on your tokens you need to do RnD into all avenues. This is further amplified by the ever decreasing amount of tokens year to year. So long as you have in season engine development and a limited number of engines per season you will always have some disparity in the spec of engines among teams.

It wasn't going to reduce costs in the short term, it is for the long term. As the tokens decrease so do the avenues of the PU that can be modified.
It does reduce costs when you get to 0 tokens. You allow just reliability upgrades. At any point they can get together (like they did in the V8 era and this year in SPA) and give the weaker PUs (opportunity, tokens, whatever) to allow them to catchup.

I think it worked for Merc and Ferrari. I like the addition of allowing the use of tokens during the year. I don't think anybody thought of the possible issues all this would cause for new PU manufactures.

diffuser wrote:It does reduce costs when you get to 0 tokens. You allow just reliability upgrades. At any point they can get together (like they did in the V8 era and this year in SPA) and give the weaker PUs (opportunity, tokens, whatever) to allow them to catchup.

So you think that once a team gets to 0 tokens it's factory shutdown and the costs are reduced?

Before they've even spent half of their 2015 tokens they're already planning the whole of 2016's token spend - just look at Mercedes, they spent 2015 tokens so that they could make the 2016 tokens more effective.

The resources are there, so they'll be used.