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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 30 Sep 2017, 02:35
by FPV GTHO
Race pace might not change much, just qualifying which may even help close the gap there for Renault
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 17 Oct 2017, 11:18
by gandharva
Renault ready for new approach to unleash 'magic modes'
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rena ... es-966533/
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 17 Oct 2017, 14:29
by baybars
I read this interview:
My highlight
Renault and Mercedes gap is nearly 0.5 sec about 25 PS in qualifying
Renault and Mercedes gap is between 0.2-0.4 sec(depend on the track.) about 10-20 PS in race
He hoped that 2018 Engine performance will very decent position to say the least against Mercedes on a Sunday.
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 18 Oct 2017, 02:54
by FPV GTHO
Are they hoping to close the gap through updates or just hoping Mercedes uses the Q3 less with more mileage required per power unit though
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 18 Oct 2017, 12:35
by mclaren111
baybars wrote: ↑17 Oct 2017, 14:29
I read this interview:
My highlight
Renault and Mercedes gap is nearly 0.5 sec about 25 PS in qualifying
Renault and Mercedes gap is between 0.2-0.4 sec(depend on the track.) about 10-20 PS in race
He hoped that 2018 Engine performance will very decent position to say the least against Mercedes on a Sunday.
What is PS ?
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 18 Oct 2017, 12:46
by wuzak
mclaren111 wrote: ↑18 Oct 2017, 12:35
baybars wrote: ↑17 Oct 2017, 14:29
I read this interview:
My highlight
Renault and Mercedes gap is nearly 0.5 sec about 25 PS in qualifying
Renault and Mercedes gap is between 0.2-0.4 sec(depend on the track.) about 10-20 PS in race
He hoped that 2018 Engine performance will very decent position to say the least against Mercedes on a Sunday.
What is PS ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepowe ... s.2C_ch.29
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 18 Oct 2017, 12:50
by BrunoH
if that is true, then next year both redbull and Mclaren should be gunning for the top 3 spot on the podium....
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 18 Oct 2017, 13:40
by mclaren111
wuzak wrote: ↑18 Oct 2017, 12:46
mclaren111 wrote: ↑18 Oct 2017, 12:35
baybars wrote: ↑17 Oct 2017, 14:29
I read this interview:
My highlight
Renault and Mercedes gap is nearly 0.5 sec about 25 PS in qualifying
Renault and Mercedes gap is between 0.2-0.4 sec(depend on the track.) about 10-20 PS in race
He hoped that 2018 Engine performance will very decent position to say the least against Mercedes on a Sunday.
What is PS ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepowe ... s.2C_ch.29
Not an Engineer. Please explain in layman terms. Thx
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 18 Oct 2017, 14:29
by CBeck113
mclaren111 wrote: ↑18 Oct 2017, 13:40
Not an Engineer. Please explain in layman terms. Thx
PS = Pferdestärke, about the same as horsepower
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 18 Oct 2017, 15:11
by GPR-A duplicate2
baybars wrote: ↑17 Oct 2017, 14:29
I read this interview:
My highlight
Renault and Mercedes gap is nearly 0.5 sec about 25 PS in qualifying
Renault and Mercedes gap is between 0.2-0.4 sec(depend on the track.) about 10-20 PS in race
He hoped that 2018 Engine performance will very decent position to say the least against Mercedes on a Sunday.
I am not sure where you derive the 0.4 sec difference to be 20 PS in race. If I understand correctly, some of these numbers are being used from many years and I am afraid, the change in the weight of the new cars is not being considered. 0.4 sec difference between cars in 2008 equates to a different power difference (purely from PU performance perspective), compared to 2009-2013, compared to 2014-2016 and now compared to 2017 cars. Rise in weight should obviously demand more power to generate a 0.4 sec difference. Someone really need to calculate the exact power requirement, instead of using old ways of looking 0.2-0.4 as 10-20 PS. That may not be ideal.
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 18 Oct 2017, 18:38
by godlameroso
Next year will be interesting. I don't think anyone will be able to easily do the 3 power unit rule. I think this guarantees grid penalties for pretty much everyone.
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 18 Oct 2017, 18:50
by hurril
GPR-A wrote: ↑18 Oct 2017, 15:11
baybars wrote: ↑17 Oct 2017, 14:29
I read this interview:
My highlight
Renault and Mercedes gap is nearly 0.5 sec about 25 PS in qualifying
Renault and Mercedes gap is between 0.2-0.4 sec(depend on the track.) about 10-20 PS in race
He hoped that 2018 Engine performance will very decent position to say the least against Mercedes on a Sunday.
I am not sure where you derive the 0.4 sec difference to be 20 PS in race. If I understand correctly, some of these numbers are being used from many years and I am afraid, the change in the weight of the new cars is not being considered. 0.4 sec difference between cars in 2008 equates to a different power difference (purely from PU performance perspective), compared to 2009-2013, compared to 2014-2016 and now compared to 2017 cars. Rise in weight should obviously demand more power to generate a 0.4 sec difference. Someone really need to calculate the exact power requirement, instead of using old ways of looking 0.2-0.4 as 10-20 PS. That may not be ideal.
Plus: it's a lot more to do with Joules than anything else. Some multiplication of PS and s that is. 40s @ Nnn PS is going beat 35s @ Mmm PS (despite Nnn == Mmm + k where k can even be rather non-negligable.) So for instance: it may well be that Ferrari has more peak power and Renault and Honda pretty much in the vicinity, unless they can apply that power for as long as Mercedes can, then that's all in vain.
TL;DR: lose 160PS for five seconds and you're screwed.
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 18 Oct 2017, 20:04
by baybars
GPR-A wrote: ↑18 Oct 2017, 15:11
baybars wrote: ↑17 Oct 2017, 14:29
I read this interview:
My highlight
Renault and Mercedes gap is nearly 0.5 sec about 25 PS in qualifying
Renault and Mercedes gap is between 0.2-0.4 sec(depend on the track.) about 10-20 PS in race
He hoped that 2018 Engine performance will very decent position to say the least against Mercedes on a Sunday.
I am not sure where you derive the 0.4 sec difference to be 20 PS in race. If I understand correctly, some of these numbers are being used from many years and I am afraid, the change in the weight of the new cars is not being considered. 0.4 sec difference between cars in 2008 equates to a different power difference (purely from PU performance perspective), compared to 2009-2013, compared to 2014-2016 and now compared to 2017 cars. Rise in weight should obviously demand more power to generate a 0.4 sec difference. Someone really need to calculate the exact power requirement, instead of using old ways of looking 0.2-0.4 as 10-20 PS. That may not be ideal.
You are right
This number was my estimate
I remember some news correlation about gap and power
some of them :
After 2015 avustralian gp
Horner said that Renault power unit less Renault’s new power unit is 100bhp down on that of rivals Mercedes
Redbull and Mercedes qualifying gap was 2 second on 2015
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... -to-season
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-results/9 ... rand-prix/
And Taffin said that found 0.5 2016 PU upgrade
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/12307 ... power-unit
Amus said that this upgrade give more than 35 PS and bring avarage 0.45 sec.
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... 55224.html
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 18 Oct 2017, 20:14
by bill shoe
godlameroso wrote: ↑18 Oct 2017, 18:38
Next year will be interesting. I don't think anyone will be able to easily do the 3 power unit rule. I think this guarantees grid penalties for pretty much everyone.
Agreed, only question is whether any engine manufacturer will make an active strategic choice to use a 4th or 5th power unit in exchange for 5-place grid penalties at one or two races? Strategic means it was planned rather than being an "oops, this is where we find ourselves" situation. At some point a single 5-place grid penalty is better than losing the engine that was going to power you through the last 5 races of the season.
Re: Renault V6 Power Unit
Posted: 18 Oct 2017, 21:06
by NL_Fer
Like has been said, with the hybrids it is not about pure horsepower. How much time ERS deployment is just as important. If the rear light starts flashing, ERS deployment stops and the car car loses 160 BHP. If this happens at he final part of a straight, there not much wrong, but like Honda in 2015 he light was flashing halfway down the big straight and during most little straight parts. That hurts allot on laptime&topspeed.
Another thing is ERS recharge time.