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Re: 2022 Aero Thread
Posted: 04 Jan 2022, 05:37
by Hoffman900
wogx wrote: ↑04 Jan 2022, 04:45
Would the incorporation of e.g. heat pipes in the top surface of Venturi tunnels have any positive effect on the air flow? Would it be legal?
It’s all going to be heat soaked from the drivetrain and coolers.
The temp that matters is the surface and ~1ft off the surface of the track.
Still want to see someone show me the math that air will approach SOS through the tunnels, in the box the FOM is holding them in.
Re: 2022 Aero Thread
Posted: 04 Jan 2022, 15:07
by wogx
* ̶F̶o̶r̶c̶e̶ ̶I̶n̶d̶i̶a̶ AM enters the chat*
Re: 2022 Aero Thread
Posted: 04 Jan 2022, 15:12
by thestig84
The irony of the timing of the show and tell videos. Sure new cars will bring some content but after that they are the most heavily prescribed cars ever with most spec parts.
The 'show and tell' would have been better in many previous years imo.
Edit: agree the teams wont actually show the good stuff anyway!
Re: 2022 Aero Thread
Posted: 04 Jan 2022, 16:03
by Hoffman900
This reminds me of what NASCAR had been been doing since the 1970s, where parts confiscated at tech were put in display for teams and media with a “don’t do this”. They don’t do that anymore (that I know of), but again, definitely a nod to that in a way.
Re: 2022 Aero Thread
Posted: 04 Jan 2022, 16:15
by mclaren111
Takes away the mistery of team's developments which is such a nice aspect of F1...
F1 is becoming Indycar...
Re: 2022 Aero Thread
Posted: 04 Jan 2022, 16:23
by jjn9128
I don't believe teams will actually tell anything of significance with the show. Anything they do say will be worse than a motorsport.com comment section level engineering.
Re: 2022 Aero Thread
Posted: 04 Jan 2022, 17:04
by godlameroso
Hoffman900 wrote: ↑04 Jan 2022, 05:37
wogx wrote: ↑04 Jan 2022, 04:45
Would the incorporation of e.g. heat pipes in the top surface of Venturi tunnels have any positive effect on the air flow? Would it be legal?
It’s all going to be heat soaked from the drivetrain and coolers.
The temp that matters is the surface and ~1ft off the surface of the track.
Still want to see someone show me the math that air will approach SOS through the tunnels, in the box the FOM is holding them in.
You have to know the volume and flow rate, we can use car speed as the velocity for area 1, but we don't know the area of the tunnel inlet or the constriction(A2). The flow velocity is a square ratio based on inlet volume and venturi volume. I know that with water, a 6:1 inlet to nozzle ratio will create a corresponding ~6x increase in flow speed. You only need a mach number greater than .3 or 370kph for compressibility effects to take place. If there is a 6:1 ratio of flow velocity at the throat vs the inlet, at 70kph you can have local flow velocity at the throat be higher than mach .3, at 180kph vehicle speed you would have sonic choking at the throat.
Re: 2022 Aero Thread
Posted: 04 Jan 2022, 17:27
by Hoffman900
jjn9128 wrote: ↑04 Jan 2022, 16:23
I don't believe teams will actually tell anything of significance with the show. Anything they do say will be worse than a motorsport.com comment section level engineering.
Exactly this.
Re: 2022 Aero Thread
Posted: 04 Jan 2022, 18:04
by SiLo
godlameroso wrote: ↑04 Jan 2022, 17:04
Hoffman900 wrote: ↑04 Jan 2022, 05:37
wogx wrote: ↑04 Jan 2022, 04:45
Would the incorporation of e.g. heat pipes in the top surface of Venturi tunnels have any positive effect on the air flow? Would it be legal?
It’s all going to be heat soaked from the drivetrain and coolers.
The temp that matters is the surface and ~1ft off the surface of the track.
Still want to see someone show me the math that air will approach SOS through the tunnels, in the box the FOM is holding them in.
You have to know the volume and flow rate, we can use car speed as the velocity for area 1, but we don't know the area of the tunnel inlet or the constriction(A2). The flow velocity is a square ratio based on inlet volume and venturi volume. I know that with water, a 6:1 inlet to nozzle ratio will create a corresponding ~6x increase in flow speed. You only need a mach number greater than .3 or 370kph for compressibility effects to take place. If there is a 6:1 ratio of flow velocity at the throat vs the inlet, at 70kph you can have local flow velocity at the throat be higher than mach .3, at 180kph vehicle speed you would have sonic choking at the throat.
I don't think the ratio will be anywhere near 6:1. But it's an interesting concept
Re: 2022 Aero Thread
Posted: 05 Jan 2022, 22:09
by jjn9128
Good view of the "bib" and tunnel entry vanes on the mockup car from the latest driver61 video
Re: 2022 Aero Thread
Posted: 05 Jan 2022, 22:14
by wesley123
mclaren111 wrote: ↑04 Jan 2022, 16:15
F1 is becoming Indycar...
Only significantly more expensive
Re: 2022 Aero Thread
Posted: 05 Jan 2022, 22:23
by Hoffman900
Curious if the design principal of these cars leads to more instances of debris being thrown at a trailing driver.
Re: 2022 Aero Thread
Posted: 06 Jan 2022, 06:47
by FW17
mclaren111 wrote: ↑04 Jan 2022, 16:15
Takes away the mistery of team's developments which is such a nice aspect of F1...
F1 is becoming Indycar...
WTF are you talking about?
Re: 2022 Aero Thread
Posted: 06 Jan 2022, 10:38
by jjn9128
Hoffman900 wrote: ↑05 Jan 2022, 22:23
Curious if the design principal of these cars leads to more instances of debris being thrown at a trailing driver.
wouldn't think so. There was more little bits with the bargeboards and pre-2019 front wings. The "floor edge wings" may not last the full race though.
Re: 2022 Aero Thread
Posted: 06 Jan 2022, 11:36
by CMSMJ1
jjn9128 wrote: ↑06 Jan 2022, 10:38
Hoffman900 wrote: ↑05 Jan 2022, 22:23
Curious if the design principal of these cars leads to more instances of debris being thrown at a trailing driver.
wouldn't think so. There was more little bits with the bargeboards and pre-2019 front wings. The "floor edge wings" may not last the full race though.
Do the regs preclude these floor edge things becoming as developed as the toothy and organic bargeboards we've got used to? Have they always to present a smooth edge?
I think the first few cars we see dangling on cranes or the spare floors in the back of the garage will furnish considerable excitement in these pages. Surely we'll see some interesting design.