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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 11 Jan 2022, 21:06
by CMSMJ1
djos wrote: ↑10 Jan 2022, 23:22
El Scorchio wrote: ↑10 Jan 2022, 13:42
Apologies if this has already been asked (and it may well have on the 108 pages of this thread....) but does the way these new cars supposedly- as far as I understand, which admittedly is limited- deal with getting dirty air/wake/turbulence out of the way mean that slipstream will be (much?) more powerful this season than before?
Aside from producing a cleaner wake behind them, cars should, in theory, be able to follow more closely and race harder as most of the downforce is being produced by the much more efficient under-body wing (Venturi tunnels) which isn't as sensitive to dirty air as regular wings.
I'm super hopeful that this will be the case as the basic Aero formula is going to be very similar to the Champ Cars of the '90s and early 2k's which had some of the best open-wheel racing ever IMO.
We can live in hope that these cars will manage to follow and to race closer through the corners. [-o<
My understanding (and happy for education) is that the cars will displace the air in front of them and as they push it out of the way then the air behind them is filling that gap - the air is also, in a train, being pulled along and so the difference in relative velocity of the car and the airstream is also a factor in the lack of downforce generated. How much that is impacting compared to the 'dirty' air - I don't know?
Noddy, I know - but sometimes we think like that
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 11 Jan 2022, 21:43
by Marty_Y
FW17 wrote: ↑11 Jan 2022, 17:32
dave kumar wrote: ↑11 Jan 2022, 16:40
SiLo wrote: ↑11 Jan 2022, 15:22
Wasn't sure where to post this, but do we know how much more the new wheels are going to weigh vs the old ones?
Check out the 2022 tyre thread, Blackout posted some info just the other day...
That is only the tyre weight, rims must be a lot more
I've read a lot of articles that seem to give different weights and it hard to know if the figures are comparisons or what is actually included.
I'm sorry if I'm adding to confusion but this article has a weight for the tyres alone, I hope it's correct and apologies if it's not.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/insi ... s/6885458/
Insider's guide: What are F1’s tyre rules?
Dec 15, 2021, 3:09 PM
How big are F1 tyres and what do they weigh?
F1 cars have run 13-inch wheels rims for years, with the diameter of the tyre and rim combination measuring 26.4 inches (67cm). The fronts are 30.5cm wide and the rears are 40.5cm, with intermediates 5cm wider and full wets 10cm wider.
From 2022, the rim size will increase to 18 inches (45.7cm) but the tyre and rim diameter will only go up to 28.3 inches (72cm). The lower profile design will change the way the cars behave on track, in theory making them even more responsive to changes of direction.
Excluding the wheel rims, the front and rear tyres weigh 9.5kg and 11.5kg respectively – about 1.5 times the weight of a bowling ball
.
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 12 Jan 2022, 10:54
by FW17
Weights
2016
Front
Tyre - 8.5 kgs Wheel - 4 kgs Total 12.5 kgs
Rear
Tyre - 10 kgs Wheel - 4.5 kgs Total 14.5 kgs
2017
Front
Tyre - 9.5 kgs Wheel - 4.5 kgs Total 14 kgs
Rear
Tyre - 11.5 kgs Wheel - 5 kgs Total 16.5 kgs
2022
Front
Tyre, Wheel Total 18 kgs
Rear
Tyre, Wheel Total 21 kgs
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 12 Jan 2022, 17:52
by CMSMJ1
FW17 wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 10:54
Weights
2016
Front
Tyre - 8.5 kgs Wheel - 4 kgs Total 12.5 kgs
Rear
Tyre - 10 kgs Wheel - 4.5 kgs Total 14.5 kgs
2017
Front
Tyre - 9.5 kgs Wheel - 4.5 kgs Total 14 kgs
Rear
Tyre - 11.5 kgs Wheel - 5 kgs Total 16.5 kgs
2022
Front
Tyre, Wheel Total 18 kgs
Rear
Tyre, Wheel Total 21 kgs
That is an extremely poor state of affairs isn't it? I cannot imagine that with a tyre war (if only!!) that the constant bulking of the tyres would be desireable or acceptable by the teams.
20kgs of wheel/tyre is a fair bit to be pulling on the tethers and flinging about the car in the event of any collisions or crashes. Surely there should be a better way to proceed and if there is a loss of performance from the tyre that allows it to be lighter, then it is a worthy trade.
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 12 Jan 2022, 19:59
by PhillipM
yeah, the Mclaren guys were saying the tyre/wheel changes alone are responsible for almost 1.5 seconds of laptime loss.
They're not much lighter on those fronts than our Safari tyres and they have 8 bands of steel and kevlar in the sidewalls
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 12 Jan 2022, 23:48
by djos
I agree, it's just crazy!
The only reason I can see for that weight increase is to A/ increase the life of the Rim and /B to reduce costs.
and I don't like either of those reasons, this is F1 and making things heavier is silly!
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 13 Jan 2022, 05:11
by FW17
CMSMJ1 wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 17:52
FW17 wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 10:54
Weights
2016
Front
Tyre - 8.5 kgs Wheel - 4 kgs Total 12.5 kgs
Rear
Tyre - 10 kgs Wheel - 4.5 kgs Total 14.5 kgs
2017
Front
Tyre - 9.5 kgs Wheel - 4.5 kgs Total 14 kgs
Rear
Tyre - 11.5 kgs Wheel - 5 kgs Total 16.5 kgs
2022
Front
Tyre, Wheel Total 18 kgs
Rear
Tyre, Wheel Total 21 kgs
That is an extremely poor state of affairs isn't it? I cannot imagine that with a tyre war (if only!!) that the constant bulking of the tyres would be desireable or acceptable by the teams.
20kgs of wheel/tyre is a fair bit to be pulling on the tethers and flinging about the car in the event of any collisions or crashes. Surely there should be a better way to proceed and if there is a loss of performance from the tyre that allows it to be lighter, then it is a worthy trade.
Not too far off Michelin Lmp tyres.
12.7kg The weight of a rear Michelin tire (37/71-18) for an LMP1 prototype (without wheel).
The narrower Michelin tires (31/71-18) weigh 11.5kg
Minimum rim weight is 9 kgs as per rules
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 13 Jan 2022, 10:27
by henry
djos wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 23:48
I agree, it's just crazy!
The only reason I can see for that weight increase is to A/ increase the life of the Rim and /B to reduce costs.
and I don't like either of those reasons, this is F1 and making things heavier is silly!
It’s because they are geometrically bigger.
For the tyres. Calculate the outer circumference difference and recall that the thread band and shoulder are the heaviest components of the tyre.
That’s 720/660 = 10% heavier.
For the rim, the well and rim are very roughly 16/11 = 45% heavier.
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 13 Jan 2022, 10:34
by ME4ME
Expecting the pit stop crews to bulk up this winter
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 13 Jan 2022, 11:49
by BassVirolla
Is not allowed to have a rig to support and fit the tire? It's common practice with trucks, because of heavy wheels.
I suspect it would be fairly easy to design a wheeled and guided rig to easily and quickly fit the wheels.
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 13 Jan 2022, 12:15
by wogx
Even if that would be legal, there could be a problem with precision, drivers don't stop in the same exact place each time.
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 13 Jan 2022, 13:10
by Vyssion
ME4ME wrote: ↑13 Jan 2022, 10:34
Expecting the pit stop crews to bulk up this winter
May I introduce you to my fellow Aussie, Hugh Jackman... errr, I mean Huge Jackman
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 13 Jan 2022, 14:54
by Stu
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 13 Jan 2022, 16:08
by SiLo
I was hoping the mods would move my question and the answers into the right thread, and they arrive posting memes! All hail our new mods
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 13 Jan 2022, 16:14
by BassVirolla
wogx wrote: ↑13 Jan 2022, 12:15
Even if that would be legal, there could be a problem with precision, drivers don't stop in the same exact place each time.
Not fixed to ground, but guided to the hub.
