F1technical.net

siskue2005 wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2019, 08:06

LM10 wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2019, 02:17

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2019, 01:59

The power is now on par with Mercedes in qualifying? Or is it because of altitude?

Mercedes engineers told that they believe that Honda is strong in high altitudes which shows that they have advantages on electrical side.

No, high altitude performance comes from the ICE alone not the electrical side coz the high altitude has thinner air which favours engines with larger Turbo (which Honda has).

Have there been any photos of the Honda turbo? I remember seeing a spy shot of the Mercedes one in their thread earlier this season.

Mark Hughes in his Mexico GP report said Honda run a smaller turbo than Mercedes:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... rix-report

The Honda, like the Renault, uses a turbo smaller than that of the Mercedes, one which can more easily compensate for the thinner air by spinning faster to further compress the thinner air. At its lower homologated burst point speed, the Mercedes turbo is not quite compensating fully for that 25 per cent reduction in air density.

Snorked wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2019, 13:04

siskue2005 wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2019, 08:06

LM10 wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2019, 02:17

Mercedes engineers told that they believe that Honda is strong in high altitudes which shows that they have advantages on electrical side.

No, high altitude performance comes from the ICE alone not the electrical side coz the high altitude has thinner air which favours engines with larger Turbo (which Honda has).

Have there been any photos of the Honda turbo? I remember seeing a spy shot of the Mercedes one in their thread earlier this season.

Mark Hughes in his Mexico GP report said Honda run a smaller turbo than Mercedes:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... rix-report

The Honda, like the Renault, uses a turbo smaller than that of the Mercedes, one which can more easily compensate for the thinner air by spinning faster to further compress the thinner air. At its lower homologated burst point speed, the Mercedes turbo is not quite compensating fully for that 25 per cent reduction in air density.

Thank you for correcting... i made a mistake there got it mixed up

That makes perfect sense. Ho pin Tung explained exactly the same in the Mexico weekend.ho pin is very knowledgable on technical field.

The more efficient the ICE is the BIGGER a turbo it allows for. Merc (and Ferrari) still have more efficient ice than Honda and Renault. Thus allowing them bigger turbo’s, more power (at lower altitude, closing top speeds).

At hight you then have a advantage from your smaller turbo.

Nobody has ever measured the size of turbo on those pu to compare them so stop spreading fake news

Bill wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2019, 13:39

Nobody has ever measured the size of turbo on those pu to compare them so stop spreading fake news

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... rix-report
The Mark hughes articles mentions it from reliable sources.

Bill wrote:Nobody has ever measured the size of turbo on those pu to compare them so stop spreading fake news

The optest method gives fairly accurate measurements...

Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk

siskue2005 wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2019, 13:45

Bill wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2019, 13:39

Nobody has ever measured the size of turbo on those pu to compare them so stop spreading fake news

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... rix-report
The Mark hughes articles mentions it from reliable sources.

uppppssss

Tanabe said a couple of months ago that spec 3 they worked on the turbo to make it efficient at high altitude so it to be working,so Honda should get the credits they deserve.Renault with big turbo have no car in the top 10 and were 0.5 tenth slower last year with Rbr. So some theories are bogus. Shape of turbo and speed also affect its performance.

Bill wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2019, 13:56

Tanabe said a couple of months ago that spec 3 they worked on the turbo to make it efficient at high altitude so it to be working,so Honda should get the credits they deserve.Renault with big turbo have no car in the top 10 and were 0.5 tenth slower last year with Rbr. So some theories are bogus. Shape of turbo and speed also affect its performance.

and your isn't correct either .... because why is TR with the same Engine 1.3s behind the RB ?
in general it all comes to three things, Chassis, Engine and Driver

Off course we know that but the topic in these thread it's all about engines

Bill, Honda are doing a great job, but they can even improve further and I think they are doing just that.
Maybe, just maybe, next year finally a RBR with Honda PU that can fight everywhere. First time I am really starting to believe it might be possible.

LM10 wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2019, 02:17

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2019, 01:59

The power is now on par with Mercedes in qualifying? Or is it because of altitude?

Mercedes engineers told that they believe that Honda is strong in high altitudes which shows that they have advantages on electrical side.

James now said it is the compressor design.

siskue2005 wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2019, 13:45

Bill wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2019, 13:39

Nobody has ever measured the size of turbo on those pu to compare them so stop spreading fake news

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... rix-report
The Mark hughes articles mentions it from reliable sources.

According to James its the opposite. Mercedes would need a bigger compressor wheel to be effective at higher altitudes. He said a bigger part would be needed.

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2019, 21:02

According to James its the opposite. Mercedes would need a bigger compressor wheel to be effective at higher altitudes. He said a bigger part would be needed.

yes i saw that. I suppose one of them writes about F1 and one of them does F1

All turbo’s are limited to 120000 rpm by Fia rule. A smaller turbo needs a higher average rpm, so less headroom to increase in thin air.

Honda is on par with Mercedes now, but the Redbull chassis works better on these high altitude tracks. Allot of Topspeed is coming from the faster corner speed in turn 12.