F1technical.net

Hmmmm. Like I said, we'll see what transpires when it's on the road with its competitors, or to be specific the cars that people decide to buy rather than a SLS. One should have learned by now not to get too excited about quoted sales. I note they've declined to give production figures......

It might sell reasonably to fat, balding 55.6 year old Germans but it's going to take more than that to persuade others and justify its existence. That's what people are talking about when they say the SLS has an image and marketing problem and why the SLM is a strategic puzzle. Mercedes are not competing against the likes of the Aston Martins, 458s, MP4-12Cs etc. that they think they're up against and they're going to crash hard there with a 350 horsepower stop-gap.

It's a bitter pill for some of you to swallow I know but they're actually fending off Audi and BMW. That's all they're doing. Anything else is all a dream.......

The SLR's problem was twofold - it was butt ugly and it cost half a million bucks.

It's interesting that no one has ever claimed ownership of the SLR design. Probably the same guy who penned the similarly goofy SLK of the time. Hopefully he got a nice severance package for his silence.

JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:By that measure Richard, Mercedes were in their rights to go with AMG instead of Mclaren. Thing is Mclaren cannot make a Mercedes, this is what was learnt.

Recent article in a magazine (Evo, I think) discussed steering feel. A consultant chassis engineer was asked to mediate between Mercedes and McLaren. The problem was steering feel. Mercedes thought the steering was lovely, McLaren thought it was lifeless.

If they couldn't agree on something like that, is it any wonder the resulting car was neither fish nor fowl? The real problem is that Mercedes asked McLaren to build a car but also wanted to be in all of the details. With AMG that works because AMG are bascially Mercedes anyway.

If Mercedes had gone to any other successful sports car manufacturer e.g. Lotus, they'd have still had the same problem.

The SLR's failure was all down to Mercedes. Sad, because I think it looks and sounds amazing.

Just a fan

I agree, but with a slight difference. Mercedes knows who buys 300k supercars and also what they require.
Most people who own these cars don't take them to anywhere near their limits. They simply "own" them for prestige or wow factor. It is best demonstrated by Ferrari clientele, of which many are female and many over 50. It is not that they cannot use the car but they use it in away that is otherwise in accordance with its purpose.

Monaco, Dubai, London and New York are all monuments to this.

Mercedes understand this and make the car more "liveable" while trying to be able to give 9/10ths the fun its rivals can. All things to all people.
It may not be the "purist" way, but I see no reason why Mercedes has to apologise for that. The SLR was dramatic, I loved the dramatic front end, and the sound, but the rear did not sit easy with me. Personal preference, and as I will never buy one it doesnt matter.

But for purposes of the thread, the fact reamins it dissapointed both Mclaren and Mercedes as it didnt sell very well, we cannot escape that.

The SLS however is a different proposition. Its the car Mercedes wanted, a GT with track ability and a price tag that is sitting well with the market at present.
Mclaren missed, and AMG is hitting, the numbers dont lie.

Im very much looking forward to Mclaren having success doing its own thing too. As I supported them for much of my 30years. I also live 40 miles from the factory!
But it will not be easy for Mclaren, despite what some say is a 458 eater(I hope!)

Are you lot on the happy pills? I think I'll quit while I'm ahead....

NewtonMeter wrote:What richard leeds said. He just managed to phrase it in a more politically correct way. Good on you richard!

JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote: I agree.

Belatti wrote:Richard leeds understood me well

segedunum wrote:You've knocked every nail in with that one Richard.

xpensive wrote:Boy that's a classic richard, a very good xample.

This forum is obviously not what it used to be...

X,

Richard made valid points, its agreeable. OT When we going to the 'ring for a race off in my S2000 eh?

Ahhhh, let's paint over reality and pretend that Mercedes are competing with cars in the class of McLaren, Aston Martin and Ferrari. Like I said, they're fending off Audi and BMW within Germany, and the aforementioned neurosis is something that seems to have spread through Mercedes like CJD. They know nothing about 300K supercars. It's completely new to them.

The SLR wasn't a bad looking car really because McLaren knew what was needed - a regular, well balanced sports car with well proportioned looks. Mercedes have that thing for the steam engine look - long bonnets and upright cabins. You can see how odd that looks in the SLR versus the rest of the car in the end. They must have wet themselves when they saw a Dodge Viper!

Noted.

Now can you please drop your attacks on the SLS, Mercedes and Brawn?
Its very one dimensional, predictable and boring.

I watched Top Gear the other night where they were driving the SLS around America and trying to do some racing. I never laughed so much in my life at the amount of poor handling, fishtailing and tyre outright destruction.

For anyone who doesn't think this is a Dodge you just have to watch someone try and get this thing around a corner at any reasonable speed.

Glad you found it entertaining.

Its obviously a more entertaining car to drive for Jeremy Clarkson too, judging by the grin factor. Oh and which car nearly ended up in the hedge again?
But I dont half think that you missed the point of the SLS...AGAIN.

It is not a 1400kg athlete that specialises in B road madness. This is a Gran turismo that specialises in getting passengers from A to b in some manner of comfort for a supercar.

If you want the athlete wait for the Blackseries SLS, lighter by over 200kgs and more power. Bottom line is the car is outselling the Ferrari 458, so even if it is a glorified dodge(it isnt) Mercedes are laughing with you!

Thought you'd find it amusing. It's a car that is only supposed to run in a straight line, in other words.

EDIT. That's the first thing I thought when I saw how it handled around even the most basic of corners: "That's not a Dodge Viper!" It certainly puts the staged videos of the car on circuits into perspective. I also don't know where this assumption comes from that it isn't Viper apart from the assumption that there simply must have been a lot of development from AMG.

I think we all get the point JET. There isn't one - apart from it being cheap for Mercedes.

segedunum wrote:I watched Top Gear the other night where they were driving the SLS around America and trying to do some racing. I never laughed so much in my life at the amount of poor handling, fishtailing and tyre outright destruction.

For anyone who doesn't think this is a Dodge you just have to watch someone try and get this thing around a corner at any reasonable speed.

Don't forget it's Jezza. He has heavy feet because that's how he likes to drive. Have you seen him driving the 599 GTO in the Italian Job? It was the same (it was all over the place w/o TC but "the TC won't let you do drive it").
On the other hand EVO's journo and amateur racer Chris Harris drove that car and praised it for handling and for the electronic systems that actually make you go faster. With all due respect JC is entertaining and everything, but often has to be taken with a pinch of salt... or more

some lap time comparison of current super cars Hockenheim (small circuit ,nordschleife).
SLS in AMG guise is capable of a current top 10 of all time streetcars and not quite top 10 on the small circuit Hockenheim ...(missed by half a second).
With a Corvette ZR1 firmly in the top 10 on both tracks on road tyres whereas every other top 10 finisher used street legal sport tyres....
I admit sportauto is a bit too much Stuttgart biased but more towards the rear engined ones...
http://www.sportauto-online.de/rundenze ... 62778.html

if you ask me that one fits my bill even better than the ZR1:
http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http ... s%3Disch:1

2 seconds off a 458

segedunum wrote:For anyone who doesn't think this is a Dodge you just have to watch someone try and get this thing around a corner at any reasonable speed.

I guess you also believe the Top gear races/challenges to be real and unstaged?
.