F1technical.net

KAIZEN wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2022, 06:08

Hoffman900 wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2022, 05:55

KAIZEN wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2022, 05:34

RA620H engine block (casting)
https://i.imgur.com/H1G6dwh.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/5KEvzYv.jpeg

RA621H engine block (cutting)
https://i.imgur.com/lnalylF.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/oqdx1Xn.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/AEA2tzz.jpeg

Can you share what increased fatigue strength? I notice the 620 has the liners in it, but something in the center valley is blurred out.

Thanks!

It is explained that the fatigue strength increased by about 70% by changing from casting to cutting.
It is a cutting process of aluminum alloy.

"cutting" = "billet" to us. So that whole block was cut from a solid billet. The shapes are very much as if it had been cast so it is not immediately apparent.

ispano6 wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2022, 06:43

KAIZEN wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2022, 06:08

Hoffman900 wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2022, 05:55

Can you share what increased fatigue strength? I notice the 620 has the liners in it, but something in the center valley is blurred out.

Thanks!

It is explained that the fatigue strength increased by about 70% by changing from casting to cutting.
It is a cutting process of aluminum alloy.

あまり教えちゃうと真似されるんじゃない？ｗ
せめて２０２２年開幕戦まで秘密にしておいたほうが。

To the person who downvoted me with the comment:
"Writing in Japanese? Really rude for the rest of the forum members"

This message was meant for the poster, don't take it personally. the use of the "w" has a specific meaning that Japanese people use.

The video of burning is probably the early one.
The new engine has been researched by a separate team since 2018.
Even if you know the idea, you don't have enough research time to get the same effect.
Honda's strength lies in its MotoGP-derived plating process.

Japan's national broadcast NHK On Demand
Honda's development story

first half
https://www.nhk-ondemand.jp/goods/G2021118259SA000/
Latter half
https://www.nhk-ondemand.jp/goods/G2021118260SA000/

Until January 16, 2022

KAIZEN wrote: ↑

07 Jan 2022, 15:11

It is a combustion video of the Honda engine released on TV.
This combustion is used from 2018 spec 3.

The convetional looks like a normal prechamber ignition setup but the new one,
It ignites from the wall inwards? Odd.

Edit:

Watched again a few more times.
The jet appears to still be used but three is also combustion coming to meet those jets in half-way across the radius.

Probably a hybrid of HCCI and TJI is my guess.

KAIZEN wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2022, 11:36

Japan's national broadcast NHK On Demand
Honda's development story

first half
https://www.nhk-ondemand.jp/goods/G2021118259SA000/
Latter half
https://www.nhk-ondemand.jp/goods/G2021118260SA000/

Until January 16, 2022

Does it have English subtitles? I don't think I'm going to be able to teach myself to be fluent in Japanese in a week.

KAIZEN wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2022, 09:21

The video of burning is probably the early one.
The new engine has been researched by a separate team since 2018.
Even if you know the idea, you don't have enough research time to get the same effect.
Honda's strength lies in its MotoGP-derived plating process.

Yes, I have been saying this for a while regarding kumasei mekki. Kakuda has pointed this out a number of times, and a number of members here have mentioned "it's nothing special", though Kakuda has said it was newly developed specifically for the F1 use. The individual responsible for developing it was in the previous NHK video, but I forget his name.

Also the NHK on demand video is not available outside of Japan, so you need a VPN that will mask you to be in Japan.

ispano6 wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2022, 18:00

KAIZEN wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2022, 09:21

The video of burning is probably the early one.
The new engine has been researched by a separate team since 2018.
Even if you know the idea, you don't have enough research time to get the same effect.
Honda's strength lies in its MotoGP-derived plating process.

Yes, I have been saying this for a while regarding kumasei mekki. Kakuda has pointed this out a number of times, and a number of members here have mentioned "it's nothing special", though Kakuda has said it was newly developed specifically for the F1 use. The individual responsible for developing it was in the previous NHK video, but I forget his name.

Also the NHK on demand video is not available outside of Japan, so you need a VPN that will mask you to be in Japan.

It's special, but others have special coatings too.

Mercedes has been playing around with HCCI combustion processes for 30 years, they very well could have a solution as well, especially if their thermal efficiencies are anywhere near what they have said to the media about.

Honda has always been fantastic in that they are a proud engineering driven company who are usually pretty open, but they aren't the only ones out there that are doing what they do (they just don't advertise it). Not getting lost in fanboi'ism allows one to see what's going on elsewhere and (hopefully) learn from it.

tok-tokkie wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2022, 07:46

KAIZEN wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2022, 06:08

Hoffman900 wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2022, 05:55

Can you share what increased fatigue strength? I notice the 620 has the liners in it, but something in the center valley is blurred out.

Thanks!

It is explained that the fatigue strength increased by about 70% by changing from casting to cutting.
It is a cutting process of aluminum alloy.

"cutting" = "billet" to us. So that whole block was cut from a solid billet. The shapes are very much as if it had been cast so it is not immediately apparent.

How are water passages cut?

Rodak wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2022, 18:20

tok-tokkie wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2022, 07:46

KAIZEN wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2022, 06:08

It is explained that the fatigue strength increased by about 70% by changing from casting to cutting.
It is a cutting process of aluminum alloy.

"cutting" = "billet" to us. So that whole block was cut from a solid billet. The shapes are very much as if it had been cast so it is not immediately apparent.

How are water passages cut?

Billets are typically drilled out and then plugged and in the case around the liners, the annulus between the two allows water.

Is there a rule regulating the coolant system psi (or bar if that's easier for you non Stateside people)? If so, what is it?

Water based coolant header tank/s if used must be fitted with an FIA apoproved pressure relief valve, which is set to a maximum of 3.75 bar gauge pressure. if car is not fitted with a header tank, an alternative position must be approved by the FIA.

Some components have been made blurry.

Craig Scarborough retweeted
Daniel Biały @f1talks
Picture of Honda engine testing bed in Milton Keynes: #F1 (Picture from NHK)

Wouter wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2022, 19:01

Some components have been made blurry.

Craig Scarborough retweeted
Daniel Biały @f1talks
Picture of Honda engine testing bed in Milton Keynes: #F1 (Picture from NHK)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FIlYVjKWYAM ... name=large

That manifold arrangement makes for some really long runners, also losses due to the bends. Hmm..

Yes, the maximum water pressure is 3.75 bar, which equates to 150° C.

You can see they reduce the water passages in the 2021 engine. Running the engine hotter because they can retain more heat without overheating the rings with their new materials.

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑

09 Jan 2022, 15:45

You can see they reduce the water passages in the 2021 engine. Running the engine hotter because they can retain more heat without overheating the rings with their new materials.

We can suspect, but it seems like we're attributing everything to this plating.

Does anyone have a link to the patent? I tried finding it and couldn't.