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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 16 Feb 2022, 03:16
by Slo Poke
Hi SmallSoldioer.
As these cars still possess bargeboards of a sort, I’d say it’s those rather than the actual floor. I think they’re calling them end fences. There’s one to each side the underfloor intakes. The outer-most extent of them appears to be doubling-up as a vortex generator with assistance from the sidepod curvature on the inside and airstream on the outside. Lucky that! Don’t you think.
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 16 Feb 2022, 04:02
by Airshifter
It's interesting to me where the differences are. On the Williams, you can clearly see squirt coming off the tire towards the car centerline. This is not visible on the Merc.
The outward vortices appear close in size, given the tire size changes. But the "dirty" spray coming off the tires seems to be a bit more diffused randomly on the Williams vs the Merc. That might just be a random matter of conditions and speeds....
It does appear that the dirty air overall is being sent higher from the rear wing, and that's a good thing!
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 16 Feb 2022, 04:38
by SmallSoldier
Slo Poke wrote: ↑16 Feb 2022, 03:16
Hi SmallSoldioer.
As these cars still possess bargeboards of a sort, I’d say it’s those rather than the actual floor. I think they’re calling them end fences. There’s one to each side the underfloor intakes. The outer-most extent of them appears to be doubling-up as a vortex generator with assistance from the sidepod curvature on the inside and airstream on the outside. Lucky that! Don’t you think.
Thanks! Makes sense!
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 16 Feb 2022, 09:53
by NicoS
Massive "rooster tail" of turbulent air behind Williams...
We will see how effective the FIA "technical" "working" "group" was... I'm not holding my breath... I actually think the toy front wing and inefficient rear wing will make following even more of a challenge.
We will get driver feedback soon!
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 16 Feb 2022, 10:37
by dave kumar
It's worth re-reading the 'CFD Analysis of 2021 Rules'
https://www.f1technical.net/features/22288 written by jjn & Vyssion.
Another key criteria for 2021 is the generation of wake upwash in the wake. This upwash helps the bulk of the wake to clear the top of a following car. It is clear that the angle of the wakes rooster tail is substantially greater for the 2021 car than the current spec, with the taller, narrower diffuser throwing the wake upwards.
So we should expect a higher rooster tail wake from these cars vs last year and that may make the rooster tail appear larger but as AeroDynamic pointed out, it is density(?) of the wake at ground level that counts, as this is what the following car encounters. The intention of the regs is to move the wake up and above the following car.
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 16 Feb 2022, 11:08
by scheffers
Giando wrote: ↑16 Feb 2022, 00:49
Giando wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022, 16:54
I'll bring this up...
https://cdn-6.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... at03-1.jpg
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-al ... a/8163076/
Giorgio Piola writes: "È interessante rilevare, quindi, come il calore prodotto nelle pance sfoghi forse nel diffusore, mentre quello generato delle masse radianti poste sopra al motore Honda fuoriesce dalla coda del cofano motore che si protende fin sopra alle sospensioni posteriori: anche in questo caso l’aria calda dovrebbe influenzare la beam wing e migliorare l’estrazione dal grande diffusore posteriore."
"
It's interesting to see, then, how the heath generated inside the sidepods flows maybe into the diffuser, while the hot air coming out from the radiators placed above the Honda PU exits from the upper tail hole on the back above the rear suspension: in this case the hot air should engage the beam wing and enhance air extraction from under the diffuser"...
IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE BY THE RULES ???
It seems to me it is not only illegal, but eventually also illogical since it could disrupt/destroy the flow under the car in a critical area...
What do you think?
Can someone kindly share his/her view on this, please? Thank you very much.
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 16 Feb 2022, 11:10
by MrGapes
This is great! Does seem to be a clean pocket of air with the spray going a lot higher
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 16 Feb 2022, 11:11
by Just_a_fan
scheffers wrote: ↑16 Feb 2022, 11:08
Giando wrote: ↑16 Feb 2022, 00:49
Giando wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022, 16:54
I'll bring this up...
https://cdn-6.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... at03-1.jpg
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-al ... a/8163076/
Giorgio Piola writes: "È interessante rilevare, quindi, come il calore prodotto nelle pance sfoghi forse nel diffusore, mentre quello generato delle masse radianti poste sopra al motore Honda fuoriesce dalla coda del cofano motore che si protende fin sopra alle sospensioni posteriori: anche in questo caso l’aria calda dovrebbe influenzare la beam wing e migliorare l’estrazione dal grande diffusore posteriore."
"
It's interesting to see, then, how the heath generated inside the sidepods flows maybe into the diffuser, while the hot air coming out from the radiators placed above the Honda PU exits from the upper tail hole on the back above the rear suspension: in this case the hot air should engage the beam wing and enhance air extraction from under the diffuser"...
IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE BY THE RULES ???
It seems to me it is not only illegal, but eventually also illogical since it could disrupt/destroy the flow under the car in a critical area...
What do you think?
Can someone kindly share his/her view on this, please? Thank you very much.
They're not allowed to dump air from the sidepods in to the diffuser. Piola ought to know better than that.
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 16 Feb 2022, 11:17
by scheffers
Just_a_fan wrote: ↑16 Feb 2022, 11:11
scheffers wrote: ↑16 Feb 2022, 11:08
Giando wrote: ↑16 Feb 2022, 00:49
Can someone kindly share his/her view on this, please? Thank you very much.
They're not allowed to dump air from the sidepods in to the diffuser. Piola ought to know better than that.
I'd also think that, strange he took time to draw that up...
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 16 Feb 2022, 11:21
by NicoS
MrGapes wrote: ↑16 Feb 2022, 11:10
This is great! Does seem to be a clean pocket of air with the spray going a lot higher
What carries the "spray" if not air?, what is in the "clean pocket"?
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 16 Feb 2022, 11:31
by Tommy Cookers
NicoS wrote: ↑16 Feb 2022, 11:21
MrGapes wrote: ↑16 Feb 2022, 11:10
This is great! Does seem to be a clean pocket of air with the spray going a lot higher
What carries the "spray" if not air?, what is in the "clean pocket"?
the fraction of the air that hasn't been greatly disturbed by the car moving through the air ?
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 16 Feb 2022, 12:02
by jjn9128
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 16 Feb 2022, 12:05
by Sevach
NicoS wrote: ↑16 Feb 2022, 09:53
Massive "rooster tail" of turbulent air behind Williams...
We will see how effective the FIA "technical" "working" "group" was... I'm not holding my breath... I actually think the toy front wing and inefficient rear wing will make following even more of a challenge.
We will get driver feedback soon!
Moving a bit from overtaking, this huge rooster tail won't be great when rain starts, visibility will be terrible.
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 16 Feb 2022, 12:10
by jjn9128
Sevach wrote: ↑16 Feb 2022, 12:05
Moving a bit from overtaking, this huge rooster tail won't be great when rain starts, visibility will be terrible.
Well yes and no - if it's higher it's affecting the following car less - and if it's narrower the following car can move out of the wheel tracks a bit to see better. More concerning is that Latifi and Albon reported visibility issues with the 720mm tyres and wheel arch winglet. Not an issue on a race track but on a street track it might see clumsy looking clipping of inside walls like happened to Leclerc at the 2nd swimming pool in quali last year.
Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread
Posted: 16 Feb 2022, 12:14
by Just_a_fan
Sevach wrote: ↑16 Feb 2022, 12:05
NicoS wrote: ↑16 Feb 2022, 09:53
Massive "rooster tail" of turbulent air behind Williams...
We will see how effective the FIA "technical" "working" "group" was... I'm not holding my breath... I actually think the toy front wing and inefficient rear wing will make following even more of a challenge.
We will get driver feedback soon!
Moving a bit from overtaking, this huge rooster tail won't be great when rain starts, visibility will be terrible.
I doubt it will be meaningfully different to the previous conditions - visibility is basically zero anyway.
One possible benefit of the big rooster tail is the lifting of water off the track and thus quickening the drying of the line. That will help the drivers if not the overtaking.