F1technical.net

Yes, I can see that on drag cars, running the Penske units with the upper channel for that I guess. Would be far easier to tune on a drag car though!

Interesting comments from the drivers, particularly Charles Leclerc about following other cars: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/lecl ... y/8495163/

Does anyone know what the speed differential is with the new cars with DRS open as opposed to DRS closed?
These cars by all accounts % wise get a lot more of the downforce from the floor/tunnels than the previous generations and the rear wing by all accounts doesn`t matter as much for rear downforce!

Basically, will DRS be less effective now or does the fact the air should be cleaner mean it might be more efficient?

Mattchu wrote: ↑

26 Feb 2022, 13:54

Does anyone know what the speed differential is with the new cars with DRS open as opposed to DRS closed?
These cars by all accounts % wise get a lot more of the downforce from the floor/tunnels than the previous generations and the rear wing by all accounts doesn`t matter as much for rear downforce!

Basically, will DRS be less effective now or does the fact the air should be cleaner mean it might be more efficient?

Yes, I think DRS will be a little bit more powerful because of the cleaner air, but we're probably talking quite a small amount.

OO7 wrote: ↑

26 Feb 2022, 19:07

Mattchu wrote: ↑

26 Feb 2022, 13:54

Does anyone know what the speed differential is with the new cars with DRS open as opposed to DRS closed?
These cars by all accounts % wise get a lot more of the downforce from the floor/tunnels than the previous generations and the rear wing by all accounts doesn`t matter as much for rear downforce!

Basically, will DRS be less effective now or does the fact the air should be cleaner mean it might be more efficient?

Yes, I think DRS will be a little bit more powerful because of the cleaner air, but we're probably talking quite a small amount.

Well the wake may be cleaner but it's actually lower pressure isn't it, and (edit) the wing is a bit wider and deeper but it doesn't have the end plates, and I think runs at less of an angle? Why can't i find this spec? But so the overall tow might be quite high still but the difference the DRS itself makes will be smaller I think.

The 2022 car inherent characteristics suggest they will naturally be faster on straights and fast corners due to the efficiency of ground effect aerodynamics, but also slower in slow corners and sections.

So this is my question.

looking at two opposite extremes of philosophy from the previous generation of cars, which philosophy, in your opinion, would be the best under these changes:

the Red Bull philosophy of high downforce and Drag, thus slower on straights, faster at cornering.. or Mercedes low drag and lower downforce, faster on straights, slower in cornering at low speed. (Correct me if im wrong explaining that?)

the way I'm looking at these new regs as someone who doesn't know aero, is that Mercedes with their low drag aero efficiency, maybe RBR will benefit most because they will have a bit more downforce for slow corners and sections but still be relatively pretty fast on straights.

but can you argue the opposite? Mercedes may be so much faster and efficient on straights, and maybe the relative difference in slow cornering speed isn't significant enough because the cars are heavier and stiffer and most cars have to slow down more to get around the slow corners. At that slower speed, will the type of DF the bodywork design and floor design creates, be enough in those sections vs a very efficient low drag car going down the straight?

It has often been said that because spending more time in slow speed corners there is more time to be gained. with even slower cars in slow turns this would be even more pronounced.

izzy wrote: ↑

27 Feb 2022, 10:16

OO7 wrote: ↑

26 Feb 2022, 19:07

Mattchu wrote: ↑

26 Feb 2022, 13:54

Does anyone know what the speed differential is with the new cars with DRS open as opposed to DRS closed?
These cars by all accounts % wise get a lot more of the downforce from the floor/tunnels than the previous generations and the rear wing by all accounts doesn`t matter as much for rear downforce!

Basically, will DRS be less effective now or does the fact the air should be cleaner mean it might be more efficient?

Yes, I think DRS will be a little bit more powerful because of the cleaner air, but we're probably talking quite a small amount.

Well the wake may be cleaner but it's actually lower pressure isn't it, and (edit) the wing is a bit wider and deeper but it doesn't have the end plates, and I think runs at less of an angle? Why can't i find this spec? But so the overall tow might be quite high still but the difference the DRS itself makes will be smaller I think.

New rules have made DRS more powerful which will aid overtaking – Bottas: https://www.racefans.net/2022/02/27/new ... ng-bottas/

OO7 wrote: ↑

28 Feb 2022, 10:51

New rules have made DRS more powerful which will aid overtaking – Bottas...

I fixed your link - you had put the URL in bold inside the URL tag and that had resulted in the F1 Tech URL being prefixed to the URL you posted when I clicked on it (at least for me it did!).
https://www.racefans.net/2022/02/27/new ... ng-bottas/

The part of the interview that is relevant is just this snippet

...I did chat with some other drivers, they say they got close, they said they had less slipstream effect. We’ll see, we’ll find out in Bahrain. But also I think it’s an important point that the DRS effect is bigger this year because of the wider wing so maybe that will compensate the small loss of the slipstream.

OO7 wrote: ↑

28 Feb 2022, 10:51

izzy wrote: ↑

27 Feb 2022, 10:16

OO7 wrote: ↑

26 Feb 2022, 19:07

Yes, I think DRS will be a little bit more powerful because of the cleaner air, but we're probably talking quite a small amount.

Well the wake may be cleaner but it's actually lower pressure isn't it, and (edit) the wing is a bit wider and deeper but it doesn't have the end plates, and I think runs at less of an angle? Why can't i find this spec? But so the overall tow might be quite high still but the difference the DRS itself makes will be smaller I think.

New rules have made DRS more powerful which will aid overtaking – Bottas: https://www.racefans.net/2022/02/27/new-rules-have-made-drs-more-powerful-which-will-aid-overtaking-bottas/

That makes sense. If there is more air for downforce when following another car, it would stand to reason the tow will be weaker and DRS more effective. I wonder if DRS trains will not be as much of a problem as the cars will be able to follow closer. LEC said there was a weird feeling between 0.5-1 sec behind a car when it was harder to close up, but outside the 0.5-1 second gap (closer and farther) it was easier to follow. Stay around 1 second through the corner and then use DRS to get to 0.5.

I wonder what the effect of a car following another with DRS open is. That might actually increase the tow for the following car. If DRS disrupts the upwash it might lead to a pocket of disturbed air behind the lead car. Does opening DRS affect the upwash?

dave kumar wrote: ↑

28 Feb 2022, 11:04

OO7 wrote: ↑

28 Feb 2022, 10:51

New rules have made DRS more powerful which will aid overtaking – Bottas...

I fixed your link - you had put the URL in bold inside the URL tag and that had resulted in the F1 Tech URL being prefixed to the URL you posted when I clicked on it (at least for me it did!).
https://www.racefans.net/2022/02/27/new ... ng-bottas/

The part of the interview that is relevant is just this snippet

...I did chat with some other drivers, they say they got close, they said they had less slipstream effect. We’ll see, we’ll find out in Bahrain. But also I think it’s an important point that the DRS effect is bigger this year because of the wider wing so maybe that will compensate the small loss of the slipstream.

Thanks for pointing that out dave. I've now edited the post to correct the issue.

I wonder how the residual bits of upper flap affect DRS performance. I'd have thought that when the flap opens, these residual sections would generate some quite powerful vortices. That's creating drag, of course, but will also still lift the car's wake a bit which might reduce the "dirty air" behind the car slightly.

OO7 wrote: ↑

28 Feb 2022, 10:51

izzy wrote: ↑

27 Feb 2022, 10:16

Well the wake may be cleaner but it's actually lower pressure isn't it, and (edit) the wing is a bit wider and deeper but it doesn't have the end plates, and I think runs at less of an angle? Why can't i find this spec? But so the overall tow might be quite high still but the difference the DRS itself makes will be smaller I think.

New rules have made DRS more powerful which will aid overtaking – Bottas: https://www.racefans.net/2022/02/27/new ... ng-bottas/

yes, I saw that, thanks. It is wider but I'm just thinking there are some other factors as well like the end plates and the angle of attack it starts with, and the air pressure it's working in at the time. And I'm not sure Valtteri is talking about his actual experience. But the big difference is getting within that 1s to start with isn't it so it should be good either way. And if it's too good they can just change the zone or trigger point or just turn it off.

The closer following, etc is all well and good, but that only matters if the cars are close enough together pace wise.

That is TBD, but I suspect the field is spread out over a wider margin speed wise than before.

izzy wrote: ↑

28 Feb 2022, 16:48

OO7 wrote: ↑

28 Feb 2022, 10:51

izzy wrote: ↑

27 Feb 2022, 10:16

Well the wake may be cleaner but it's actually lower pressure isn't it, and (edit) the wing is a bit wider and deeper but it doesn't have the end plates, and I think runs at less of an angle? Why can't i find this spec? But so the overall tow might be quite high still but the difference the DRS itself makes will be smaller I think.

New rules have made DRS more powerful which will aid overtaking – Bottas: https://www.racefans.net/2022/02/27/new ... ng-bottas/

yes, I saw that, thanks. It is wider but I'm just thinking there are some other factors as well like the end plates and the angle of attack it starts with, and the air pressure it's working in at the time. And I'm not sure Valtteri is talking about his actual experience. But the big difference is getting within that 1s to start with isn't it so it should be good either way. And if it's too good they can just change the zone or trigger point or just turn it off.

I agreed. Those are good points izzy.