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@Wazari

Historically what manufacturer did and does Honda use for it's Turbochargers?

GoranF1 wrote:@Wazari

Historically what manufacturer did and does Honda use for it's Turbochargers?

I think the the current turbochargers are made by IHI (Japanese company, had links with Daimler until recently I think).

taperoo2k wrote:

GoranF1 wrote:@Wazari

Historically what manufacturer did and does Honda use for it's Turbochargers?

I think the the current turbochargers are made by IHI (Japanese company, had links with Daimler until recently I think).

IHI is associated with Mitsubishi?

taperoo2k wrote:

GoranF1 wrote:@Wazari

Historically what manufacturer did and does Honda use for it's Turbochargers?

I think the the current turbochargers are made by IHI (Japanese company, had links with Daimler until recently I think).

I think they used IHI in the 80s too.

By the way, Wazari-san do you know if and how the guys at Sakura choose how many of the 32 tokens they will use in the winter? Did they say something like "we need to have this amount of tokens left in case we have to make this particular change" or they simply fixed the issues in the old PU and than found themselves with a number of spare tokens? I'm asking this cause you said they needed about 2/3 of the 32 tokens to fix the issues and I presume they are not going to spend all the tokens now.

Well seeing as how you're only allowed 4 power units through the season, or is it 5 because of 21 races? You wouldn't be able to really introduce a change without shooting yourself in the foot until you're due for your next power unit. Plus it helps to keep tokens just in case you discover something while actually running the power unit.

Don't forget the new Turbocharger will not use any tokens because of the new requirement to vent the wastegate flow through a separate exhaust pipe.

nevill3 wrote:Don't forget the new Turbocharger will not use any tokens because of the new requirement to vent the wastegate flow through a separate exhaust pipe.

I strongly believe that to be incorrect. Turbocharger design changes will definitely cost tokens.

I would be very surprised if Honda is using turbochargers built by IHI. Honda has a close relationship with Mitsubishi Heavy Industries which has extensive experience in turbocharger casting and assembly. Also Honda and IHI didn't exactly have the best of relationships in the past. The turbochargers we used in the "80's were manufactured by Mitsubishi according to our specs.

IHI and Mitsubishi are definitely not related. They have a rivalry that goes back to the 1800's. They both started off as ship builders and then into aircraft parts and then into the automotive arena. IHI was the origin of Isuzu motors while Mitsubishi starting building cars under their own name. Mitsubishi got much bigger than IHI when they went into the banking business.

I do not know how they are allocating their tokens. I would guess a majority of them would be consumed during the winter.

ME4ME wrote:I strongly believe that to be incorrect. Turbocharger design changes will definitely cost tokens.

It's free according to ScarbsF1 (30th September): https://twitter.com/ScarbsF1/status/649309120525373440

2016 wastegate pipe reg allows Honda to change its turbine without tokens as the casing has them already incorporated

Racecar Engineering ‏@RacecarEngineer 6 Oct 2015
@ScarbsF1 Are you sure it does not cost tokens? All I see is a requirement to change and it is not for Cost/Reliability/Safety

Craig Scarborough ‏@ScarbsF1 6 Oct 2015
@RacecarEngineer yes, sure

and SomersF1 (12th November): https://twitter.com/somersf1/status/664849709811572736

Travis Rice ‏@rice_tm 13 Nov 2015
@SomersF1 Plus, aren't they getting a free upgrade on turbo due to wastegate change for 2016?

Matt Somerfield ‏@SomersF1 13 Nov 2015
@rice_tm yes because of the dual wastegate introduction

Wazari wrote:I would be very surprised if Honda is using turbochargers built by IHI. Honda has a close relationship with Mitsubishi Heavy Industries which has extensive experience in turbocharger casting and assembly. Also Honda and IHI didn't exactly have the best of relationships in the past. The turbochargers we used in the "80's were manufactured by Mitsubishi according to our specs.

IHI and Mitsubishi are definitely not related. They have a rivalry that goes back to the 1800's. They both started off as ship builders and then into aircraft parts and then into the automotive arena. IHI was the origin of Isuzu motors while Mitsubishi starting building cars under their own name. Mitsubishi got much bigger than IHI when they went into the banking business.

I do not know how they are allocating their tokens. I would guess a majority of them would be consumed during the winter.

I know about Honda's ties to Mitsubishi, in fact Honda exclusively used Mitsubishi Alternators in the 90's and early 00's before switching to Denso in their road cars. Thanks for clearing that up for me thought.

godlameroso wrote:I know about Honda's ties to Mitsubishi, in fact Honda exclusively used Mitsubishi Alternators in the 90's and early 00's before switching to Denso in their road cars. Thanks for clearing that up for me thought.

I also believe Mitsubishi is supplying turbochargers to Honda for the new turbo Civic.

Interestingly, the 'Japanese Heavy' with best compressor and turbine know-how might be KHI but I doubt Honda would pursue that one!

Wazari wrote:I would be very surprised if Honda is using turbochargers built by IHI. Honda has a close relationship with Mitsubishi Heavy Industries which has extensive experience in turbocharger casting and assembly. Also Honda and IHI didn't exactly have the best of relationships in the past. The turbochargers we used in the "80's were manufactured by Mitsubishi according to our specs.

IHI and Mitsubishi are definitely not related. They have a rivalry that goes back to the 1800's. They both started off as ship builders and then into aircraft parts and then into the automotive arena. IHI was the origin of Isuzu motors while Mitsubishi starting building cars under their own name. Mitsubishi got much bigger than IHI when they went into the banking business.

I do not know how they are allocating their tokens. I would guess a majority of them would be consumed during the winter.

I was going by what I could I find using google searches only articles about it are from 2014, nothing recent seems to have been said about whose building the turbochargers for Honda. I don't think the IHI reports were ever confirmed by Honda, so you may well be correct. IHI did have a partnership with Daimler but since Mercedes are building turbochargers in house that partnership was dissolved by the looks of things. I do wonder if Honda are following the Mercedes route and designing and building Turbochargers themselves. Might explain why the turbocharger didn't work as intended.....

The fact that of current manufactures Mercedes is the only one that builds their TC in-house, is probably a very big advantage for the Germans in this new engine regulations.

I'm sure Honda's turbos are manufactured exactly as Honda wants to the extent it might as well be in house. Furthermore, Honda has a lot of subsidiaries such as Kehin, Modulo, NOK, which although separate companies are essentially just an arm of Honda. I think their power unit is as 'in house' as Mercedes.

*I wonder who makes their battery pack, I want to say Panasonic but I doubt it.