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bhallg2k wrote:If the tires simply have to be crap, can the front ones at least be wider crap?

+1 =D> =D> =D>

bhallg2k wrote:If the tires simply have to be crap, can the front ones at least be wider crap?

Why would you want wider front tyres???

For stability a car needs its aerodynamic centre of pressure rearwards of the CG. If you allow wider front tyres the handling balance will require a more forward CG, this means the aero balance can be more forward - i.e. more front downforce that will be affected by following another car = car can't follow each other closely in corners = crappy racing.

I'd mandate rear tyres 50% wider than the fronts, which would drive the CG to more like 60:40 towards the rear and therefore force an aero balance of something like 68:32.

Ben

ubrben wrote:I'd mandate rear tyres 50% wider than the fronts

Bring on the steam rollers!

I once had a set of those on an autocross/solo special. The rear rims were massive.

Brian

Just look at how much those rear tires are deflecting laterally ... nice pic!

Jersey Tom wrote:

ubrben wrote:I'd mandate rear tyres 50% wider than the fronts

Bring on the steam rollers!

Hey, look! It's a rubbered-in track.

ubrben wrote:Why would you want wider front tyres???

For more front-end grip.

Moreover, I do not subscribe to the notion that "dirty air" adversely effects racing. I've seen far too many epic battles in conditions that "dirty air" should have negated but didn't.

Ben

Gaawd, look at that opposite-lock, bet that car was actually under-steering, why Ronnie set it up like that before the corner...

Chuckjr wrote:...

As boring as you may have found it, at least it was true and proper racing. What do we have currently?

Artificial racing.

that´s rubber? I´d think this is a track on which todays cars would simply fall apart..

zyphro wrote:

Chuckjr wrote:...

As boring as you may have found it, at least it was true and proper racing. What do we have currently?

Artificial racing.

All the teams get the exact same tyres. That's no more artificial than giving different drivers different cars made by different teams - the grid has never been equal. Artificial racing would be to give the slow guys an advantage over the fast guys and that's not what is happening here.

What you really mean is that your favoured driver isn't winning week in week out any more and so you don't like these tyres. I much prefer a season where a bad day doesn't mean you only finish second.

myurr wrote:

zyphro wrote:

Chuckjr wrote:...

As boring as you may have found it, at least it was true and proper racing. What do we have currently?

Artificial racing.

All the teams get the exact same tyres. That's no more artificial than giving different drivers different cars made by different teams - the grid has never been equal. Artificial racing would be to give the slow guys an advantage over the fast guys and that's not what is happening here.

What you really mean is that your favoured driver isn't winning week in week out any more and so you don't like these tyres. I much prefer a season where a bad day doesn't mean you only finish second.

Lol no. It's depressing watching drivers to conserve their tyres the whole race.

Come on, I don't mind the saving tyres thing but why the whole race? There should be some way to allow drivers push and save their tyres. Perhaps a harder tyre that lasts the whole race and allows you to push, and a softer tyre which is quicker over a single lap but degrades quicker.

There needs to be a balance, so far there isn't much choice at all.

"Artificial racing would be to give the slow guys an advantage over the fast guys and that's not what is happening here."

No, the results are solely based on who gets the tyre working. If you can't see that it's time to take your rose tinted glasses off. I bet you we will have another different winner in Monaco.

But if there is a hard tyre that allows you to push and will do the whole race then everyone will do the exact same strategy - they'll all use that one tyre.

I agree that it would be better to have a tyre that can be leant on without falling apart, but Hamilton showed how it could be done with the current hard tyre in the last race. He was able to overtake many cars and get the tyres to last. In the final stint he was driving to a target time and managed almost half the race distance on a single set of tyres.

It is possible but the teams have to get the setup right. By the end of this year the teams will be on top of the setup and will all be doing similar strategies at every race again.

zyphro wrote:"Artificial racing would be to give the slow guys an advantage over the fast guys and that's not what is happening here."

No, the results are solely based on who gets the tyre working. If you can't see that it's time to take your rose tinted glasses off. I bet you we will have another different winner in Monaco.

So what if there is another winner in Monaco? In qualifying a difference of just 0.1% in performance is usually enough to be the difference between a top 5 place and not getting into the top 10. The field is so incredibly close this year because of rule stability and the FIA cracking down on some of the creative ways teams were bending the rules. When things are that close the it's obvious that the pecking order will change on a race by race basis.

The races are being won by the driver in a good car who drives a great race AND who gets the tyres working. There is nothing wrong with that. My favourite driver, Hamilton, hasn't even won a race yet and I'm still loving the variability and the fact the drivers are having to work for their wins, and are having to drive great races to salvage a solid points finish when their car and setup isn't good enough for a win.

A bad setup and a poor performance shouldn't just net you second or third place as it was with Vettel last year. THAT is artificial racing where you have such an advantage through your equipment that you struggle to lose. Or do you think Vettel would have won last years championship in an HRT?

Zyphro, let me put this another way for you. Which car / driver combination do you feel has been so head and shoulders above the competition this year that they would deservedly be running away with the championship if it weren't for these blasted tyres?

Perhaps MS' outburst against the italian rubber is not so much about the tyres performance per se, but the apparently stochastic, and maybe even intentional, inconsistency from race to race?

Maybe Schumi is on something and putting pressure on in public voicing his concerns.
Actually nobody has claimed everybody gets the same tires on each weekend...It ´s rather obvious the tyre situation swings exactly in the direction needed every weekend.....coincidence? I´m gobsmacked ...