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subcritical71 wrote: ↑

22 Jul 2018, 00:31

Greg Locock wrote: ↑

21 Jul 2018, 23:07

The reason the big boys jumped from L1 to L4, without releasing L2 or L3, is precisely because of human factors. L1 is dodgy enough that the driver remains engaged, L4 is the first level where the driver can basically ignore the car, and doesn't exist yet in production. L4 means that in any situation if the car gets puzzled, it pulls over, safely. As to true L5 (driving in snow, fog and across fields, all around the world), my latest guess is 2040 at the earliest for 1% first world market penetration. It may never be economically feasible.

Wait, I'm behind . Who is doing L4 AV already?

Waymo for one. See above article about them reaching 8 million miles and plans to live with ride hailing in 2018.

A demagogue or rabble-rouser is a leader in a democracy who gains popularity by exploiting prejudice and ignorance among the common people, whipping up the passions of the crowd and shutting down reasoned deliberation

Excuse me but where do you get off calling me a demagogue? I certainly did not try to whip up any passions or try to shut down deliberation. I simply asked who had invested in either an EV or a semi AV. Seems you the one trying to be argumentative and shut down deliberation and discussion.
You think all it's is great? That's fine but don't try to belittle and attack those who don't walk in lock step with you.

@subcritical71 No L4s are currently available for leasing or purchase by private individuals. That doesn't mean they don't exist. Waymo GM Volvo Ford MB and doubtless many other OEMs all have L4 programs.

strad wrote: ↑

22 Jul 2018, 04:14

A demagogue or rabble-rouser is a leader in a democracy who gains popularity by exploiting prejudice and ignorance among the common people, whipping up the passions of the crowd and shutting down reasoned deliberation

Excuse me but where do you get off calling me a demagogue? I certainly did not try to whip up any passions or try to shut down deliberation. I simply asked who had invested in either an EV or a semi AV. Seems you the one trying to be argumentative and shut down deliberation and discussion.
You think all it's is great? That's fine but don't try to belittle and attack those who don't walk in lock step with you.

Asking who´s invested on a EV or AV and who has put their money where their mouth is can be seen as an attempt to shut down deliberation, in the way that you know there are no AV available yet so none has done that yet

But on the EV part.... after some reconsideration I must agree. I think technically they´re viable but I also agree they´re too expensive, so to be really worth from an economical point of view you need to do a lot of mileage, but then those who do a lot of mileage will probably need more range than EVs provide. So basically I must agree they´re not viable today at those prices

So I´d say you were 50% demagogic (AV) and 50% accurate (EV), sorry for my 50%

This is the AV thread tough

Andres125sx wrote: ↑

22 Jul 2018, 13:12

strad wrote: ↑

22 Jul 2018, 04:14

A demagogue or rabble-rouser is a leader in a democracy who gains popularity by exploiting prejudice and ignorance among the common people, whipping up the passions of the crowd and shutting down reasoned deliberation

Excuse me but where do you get off calling me a demagogue? I certainly did not try to whip up any passions or try to shut down deliberation. I simply asked who had invested in either an EV or a semi AV. Seems you the one trying to be argumentative and shut down deliberation and discussion.
You think all it's is great? That's fine but don't try to belittle and attack those who don't walk in lock step with you.

Asking who´s invested on a EV or AV and who has put their money where their mouth is can be seen as an attempt to shut down deliberation, in the way that you know there are no AV available yet so none has done that yet

But on the EV part.... after some reconsideration I must agree. I think technically they´re viable but I also agree they´re too expensive, so to be really worth from an economical point of view you need to do a lot of mileage, but then those who do a lot of mileage will probably need more range than EVs provide. So basically I must agree they´re not viable today at those prices

So I´d say you were 50% demagogic (AV) and 50% accurate (EV), sorry for my 50%

This is the AV thread tough

It it good to highlight the 'overlap period' though. This is going to be the tough times.
There is absolutely no question that some time in the future cars ( personal transport) is going to be automated and centrally controlled. I can put myself in the head of a cart driver in th 1900's and knowing that soon my lifestyle is going to belong in history books. It does not mean I embrace it with open arms, or that I am going to fight it to the grave. It just 'is going to happen'.
It may be just a quip, but I recall a Romanian farmer being asked his thoughts on having a tractor rather than a buffalo pair. He said something like~ it smells much better and I do not have to clean it own each night and sleep with it.

Some see what can be for humanity, some see what it does for them personally.

I regularly cross borders with my personal transport. I wonder how this will affect AV usage.

Greg Locock wrote: ↑

22 Jul 2018, 09:23

@subcritical71 No L4s are currently available for leasing or purchase by private individuals. That doesn't mean they don't exist. Waymo GM Volvo Ford MB and doubtless many other OEMs all have L4 programs.

Gotcha... I misunderstood.

JonoNic wrote: ↑

22 Jul 2018, 17:17

I regularly cross borders with my personal transport. I wonder how this will affect AV usage.

What do you mean by 'boarders'. State lines international or cultural?
Do you continue to use waze( or which ever you prefer) or do you need to change protocol?
Most days I move back and for from England Wales border and other than paying bridge toll it has no affect.

If I moved from 'drive on the left to drive on the right' I can see problems.

Big Tea wrote:

JonoNic wrote: ↑

22 Jul 2018, 17:17

I regularly cross borders with my personal transport. I wonder how this will affect AV usage.

What do you mean by 'boarders'. State lines international or cultural?
Do you continue to use waze( or which ever you prefer) or do you need to change protocol?
Most days I move back and for from England Wales border and other than paying bridge toll it has no affect.

If I moved from 'drive on the left to drive on the right' I can see problems.

International borders. South Africa to Zimbabwe or Botswana. I still use Google maps lol.

JonoNic wrote: ↑

22 Jul 2018, 17:32

Big Tea wrote:

JonoNic wrote: ↑

22 Jul 2018, 17:17

I regularly cross borders with my personal transport. I wonder how this will affect AV usage.

What do you mean by 'boarders'. State lines international or cultural?
Do you continue to use waze( or which ever you prefer) or do you need to change protocol?
Most days I move back and for from England Wales border and other than paying bridge toll it has no affect.

If I moved from 'drive on the left to drive on the right' I can see problems.

International borders. South Africa to Zimbabwe or Botswana. I still use Google maps lol.

Do the road rules change?

I can see a problem if it is cultural borders. You will move from 'geared up' to not geared up.
I would assume the car would be smart enough to tell you if the infrastructure was in place to be autonomous or if yo had to drive the car.

That is a very good point though. As things stand we are thinking along the lines of control being passed back and fore between a driver and a system. If a system is in control, and the 'driver' can not drive, where do we go?
Nice one

A bit nit picky, but if I go from the US to Mexico, and the other way around, I need to reconfigure Waze. Its a bit of a pain. And I could see a cars database being geo specific. If they are using stored data to navigate this could present a problem.
This will surely become a problem when you drive a car that cannot be sold in a particular country, because why would that manufacturer put the effort into a location where they cannot sell their car. I only think of this because I own a 2006 car that was sold in the US, but was not legal in Canada (so could not be sold there). And it goes the other way around also. There are several cars that can be sold in Canada but not the US.

The best solution might be to remove all political borders then... This is totally against what Trump is campaigning though.

subcritical71 wrote: ↑

22 Jul 2018, 17:39

A bit nit picky, but if I go from the US to Mexico, and the other way around, I need to reconfigure Waze. Its a bit of a pain. And I could see a cars database being geo specific. If they are using stored data to navigate this could present a problem.
This will surely become a problem when you drive a car that cannot be sold in a particular country, because why would that manufacturer put the effort into a location where they cannot sell their car. I only think of this because I own a 2006 car that was sold in the US, but was not legal in Canada (so could not be sold there). And it goes the other way around also. There are several cars that can be sold in Canada but not the US.

This will take some sorting?

The topic has seemed to die off....

Here's an interesting article on Autonomous Helicopters. It makes me think that if everyone wasn't in such fierce competition and breakthroughs in the tech more freely distributed where we could be. I realize profits are important and collaboration will increase as the tech becomes more 'standard'. I seem to remember that Tesla was patenting their tech, but not requiring a license to use the patented technology.

https://www.wired.com/story/sikorsky-se ... pter-sara/

Steve Wozniak says he's 'given up' on idea of autonomous cars
https://www.arabianbusiness.com/transpo ... omous-cars

however the 5G short towers keep on installing .. this should raise the awareness of AI and help development of the Autonomous Cars.. regardless the radiations
specially when most of population of earth are brainless cattles.