F1technical.net

Dazed1 wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2020, 00:29

Holm86 wrote: ↑

09 Feb 2020, 22:21

Morteza wrote: ↑

09 Feb 2020, 00:29

Charles Leclerc was testing for Pirelli yesterday
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQQlRvpWkAE ... ame=medium

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQRMGQDWoAA ... ame=medium

No one got any photos from the test??

"Ferrari used a modified version of their 2019 car to gain as accurate data as possible on Pirelli’s 18-inch tyres which are set to be introduced in the 2021 season. However, there are no images of the car in action as Ferrari declined to allow Pirelli to release any pictures."
From the article on this site.

I hadn't seen the article, but thats kinda low from Ferrari's side.
But the test was at Jerez, so maybe there could have been a couple of spy shots

So with the introduction of 18" rims have they also increased the size of the break discs ?

I would imagine that these were sized around the old hubs but they will now be bigger.

Unc1eM0nty wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2020, 10:02

So with the introduction of 18" rims have they also increased the size of the break discs ?

I would imagine that these were sized around the old hubs but they will now be bigger.

Here are the relevant technical regulations:

2020:
11.3.2 All discs must have a maximum thickness of 32mm and a maximum outside diameter of 278mm.

2021:
11.3.2 All discs must have a maximum thickness of 32mm
11.3.3 The maximum outside diameters of the discs are 330mm for the front and 278mm for the rear.

So, it looks that only the front discs will be bigger (278 -> 330 mm)

Holm86 wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2020, 09:29

I hadn't seen the article, but thats kinda low from Ferrari's side.
But the test was at Jerez, so maybe there could have been a couple of spy shots

Probably didn't want to confuse people with the test being so close to the 2020 car reveals. Just imagine the less well informed pundits (i.e. most F1-related websites ) shouting about the new car being an old car etc. Having that all over the websites wouldn't be great for Ferrari's marketing goals around the 2020 launch.

Just_a_fan wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2020, 11:34

Holm86 wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2020, 09:29

I hadn't seen the article, but thats kinda low from Ferrari's side.
But the test was at Jerez, so maybe there could have been a couple of spy shots

Probably didn't want to confuse people with the test being so close to the 2020 car reveals. Just imagine the less well informed pundits (i.e. most F1-related websites ) shouting about the new car being an old car etc. Having that all over the websites wouldn't be great for Ferrari's marketing goals around the 2020 launch.

Well, that is what they risk now, if any spy photographs come out
Instead of just publicy state "Hey, we have just participated in a tyre test with last years car, and next years wheels, here are som pics, best regards Ferrari"

Holm86 wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2020, 11:45

Just_a_fan wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2020, 11:34

Holm86 wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2020, 09:29

I hadn't seen the article, but thats kinda low from Ferrari's side.
But the test was at Jerez, so maybe there could have been a couple of spy shots

Probably didn't want to confuse people with the test being so close to the 2020 car reveals. Just imagine the less well informed pundits (i.e. most F1-related websites ) shouting about the new car being an old car etc. Having that all over the websites wouldn't be great for Ferrari's marketing goals around the 2020 launch.

Well, that is what they risk now, if any spy photographs come out
Instead of just publicy state "Hey, we have just participated in a tyre test with last years car, and next years wheels, here are som pics, best regards Ferrari"

This is Ferrari. They do things their own way. Mercedes would have had it all over instwitterbook, RedBull on their own magazine. Ferrari do the whole "<shrug> go away" response. It's all part of what makes F1 teams so varied.

From today's F2 pre-season test in Bahrain

miguelbento wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2020, 10:42

Unc1eM0nty wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2020, 10:02

So with the introduction of 18" rims have they also increased the size of the break discs ?

I would imagine that these were sized around the old hubs but they will now be bigger.

Here are the relevant technical regulations:

2020:
11.3.2 All discs must have a maximum thickness of 32mm and a maximum outside diameter of 278mm.

2021:
11.3.2 All discs must have a maximum thickness of 32mm
11.3.3 The maximum outside diameters of the discs are 330mm for the front and 278mm for the rear.

So, it looks that only the front discs will be bigger (278 -> 330 mm)

Its going to be interesting to see if the teams actually increase rotor diameter. Im sure the math wizards on this forum could calculate the energy wasted by accelerating this additional rotating mass as well as the increased gyroscopic effect on steering.

Im sure teams are studying this and it's knock on effects as we speak.

Zynerji wrote: ↑

01 Mar 2020, 17:55

Its going to be interesting to see if the teams actually increase rotor diameter. Im sure the math wizards on this forum could calculate the energy wasted by accelerating this additional rotating mass as well as the increased gyroscopic effect on steering.

Im sure teams are studying this and it's knock on effects as we speak.

yes good point. This came up with girl racers, because women's leg strength is typically about 60% of men's, and a bigger rotor can mean lower pedal force of course. There must be a lot of other tradeoffs as you say

Zynerji wrote: ↑

01 Mar 2020, 17:55

Its going to be interesting to see if the teams actually increase rotor diameter. Im sure the math wizards on this forum could calculate the energy wasted by accelerating this additional rotating mass as well as the increased gyroscopic effect on steering.

Of course they will, racing cars always use the maximum brake diameter available... even if the swept area is the same.

The Super Touring cars famously had enormous aluminium hats in the middle of their relatively small swept area brakes, to push the rotor material out to the maximum radius allowed. You can't give up free mechanical advantage from leverage after all!

If what they have now is sufficient, why would you add negatives? (Mass, gyro)

Zynerji wrote: ↑

01 Mar 2020, 20:25

If what they have now is sufficient, why would you add negatives? (Mass, gyro)

That's a good point.

You are assuming that the smaller diameter brake disc will be lighter and have less rotational inertia, when that may not be the case though. Going to a larger diameter may allow you to go a thinner rotor (since the circumference for cooling is greater), reduce the Δr of the swept surface (between inner and outer disc radius) and potentially actually reduce overall mass and inertia.

since the fronts do more braking this it seems would mean even later braking would be available.

JordanMugen wrote: ↑

01 Mar 2020, 20:30

Zynerji wrote: ↑

01 Mar 2020, 20:25

If what they have now is sufficient, why would you add negatives? (Mass, gyro)

That's a good point.

You are assuming that the smaller diameter brake disc will be lighter and have less rotational inertia, when that may not be the case though. Going to a larger diameter may allow you to go a thinner rotor (since the circumference for cooling is greater), reduce the Δr of the swept surface (between inner and outer disc radius) and potentially actually reduce overall mass and inertia.

Im definitely interested in seeing the maths.

strad wrote: ↑

01 Mar 2020, 20:46

since the fronts do more braking this it seems would mean even later braking would be available.

yes they need a huge pedal force at the start of braking don't they, with having 5+G on the tyres, and big muscle efforts need time to build up, i think even some drivers might not be able to lock the fronts atm until some speed has come off

anyway i think they'll all go as big as they can, with the bigger surface area, more mechanical advantage as @JordanMugen says, less clamping pressure means lighter calipers, less density in the disc etc etc

why do FIA limit them to these maximum sizes? it seems pointless on the face of it