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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2023 (Grand Prix Cars)
Posted: 13 Jun 2023, 23:43
by beschadigunc
LVDH wrote: ↑12 Jun 2023, 18:26
Now, please keep in mind, we are dealing with limited mesh sizes
I honestly (still) think the internal parts take way more mesh space then they deserve to it would be very very beneficial for the overall accuracy of the simulation to reduce their surface mesh quality 5x and let the UT body go into high res surfaces instead of vehicle body.
Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2023 (Grand Prix Cars)
Posted: 15 Jun 2023, 23:53
by G-raph
LVDH wrote: ↑12 Jun 2023, 18:26
Regarding the rule discussion. It took me some time, but I decided to slightly modify the rules regarding the floor. They are now updated. Mainly, I have changed the wording (no idea where the thing with the plural of cross sections ever came from), in a way that allows multiple elements in the outside areas of the floor. I think some elements there are what we see in F1 and I did want to avoid a double diffuser. Depending on what I see, I might adjust the max number of sections. I think in this race, there was one car that had quite a few. Now, please keep in mind, we are dealing with limited mesh sizes, so there is a high chance off the mesher closing the gap between too many small and close together elements.
Thank you for the clarification and the update to the rules!
Y550 doesn't fully cover the floor edge region (at the rear) as you can see on yinlad's picture, but I'm ok with that.
For info, this has made my floor winglet illegal so I had to move it a little bit forwards. We'll see how it goes.
I have another request though...
Can you please reword 12.3 in a similar way? If you say that the plural was not intentional it would be good to avoid confusion again. Now we have settled the question of sections in any Y-plane, it would be good to know what is actually allowed in any X-plane. Thanks in advance!
Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2023 (Grand Prix Cars)
Posted: 16 Jun 2023, 08:56
by Koldskaal
G-raph wrote: ↑15 Jun 2023, 23:53
LVDH wrote: ↑12 Jun 2023, 18:26
Regarding the rule discussion. It took me some time, but I decided to slightly modify the rules regarding the floor. They are now updated. Mainly, I have changed the wording (no idea where the thing with the plural of cross sections ever came from), in a way that allows multiple elements in the outside areas of the floor. I think some elements there are what we see in F1 and I did want to avoid a double diffuser. Depending on what I see, I might adjust the max number of sections. I think in this race, there was one car that had quite a few. Now, please keep in mind, we are dealing with limited mesh sizes, so there is a high chance off the mesher closing the gap between too many small and close together elements.
Thank you for the clarification and the update to the rules!
Y550 doesn't fully cover the floor edge region (at the rear) as you can see on yinlad's picture, but I'm ok with that.
For info, this has made my floor winglet illegal so I had to move it a little bit forwards. We'll see how it goes.
I have another request though...
Can you please reword 12.3 in a similar way? If you say that the plural was not intentional it would be good to avoid confusion again. Now we have settled the question of sections in any Y-plane, it would be good to know what is actually allowed in any X-plane. Thanks in advance!
I agree, It would be nice to remove this ambiguity from 12.3 also. iirc the "floor edge" has its' own RV in the F1 regulations, like yinlad proposed.
So the "main" floor must be strictly one section in all X and Y planes. But within the floor edge volume you can do whatever you want. I think this would be a better solution.
from:
https://www.f1technical.net/features/23219
Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2023 (Grand Prix Cars)
Posted: 16 Jun 2023, 16:09
by LVDH
Koldskaal wrote: ↑16 Jun 2023, 08:56
I agree, It would be nice to remove this ambiguity from 12.3 also. iirc the "floor edge" has its' own RV in the F1 regulations, like yinlad proposed.
So the "main" floor must be strictly one section in all X and Y planes. But within the floor edge volume you can do whatever you want. I think this would be a better solution.
https://i.imgur.com/oFL6gCu.png
from:
https://www.f1technical.net/features/23219
This sounds very reasonable and like the way to go. Please send me the volume and a good formulation of the rules. That way, we already have more than one person cooking it up and it might turn out well and as intended.
Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2023 (Grand Prix Cars)
Posted: 18 Jun 2023, 11:41
by variante
LVDH wrote: ↑12 Jun 2023, 18:26
I kind of forgot that I have to present all the new teams and also CFD images for the race.
Kind reminder.
Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2023 (Grand Prix Cars)
Posted: 20 Jun 2023, 21:16
by LVDH
https://mantiumchallenge.com/cfd-images ... mvrc-2023/
Also, as I am still owing you this small rule fix regarding the floor edge and for some other reasons, I delayed the next race an additional week.
Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2023 (Grand Prix Cars)
Posted: 20 Jun 2023, 22:01
by yinlad
Very interesting compare between G-raph and others. As much as the top wings make me want to vomit you can certainly see them doing a job
Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2023 (Grand Prix Cars)
Posted: 21 Jun 2023, 10:30
by Koldskaal
LVDH wrote: ↑16 Jun 2023, 16:09
This sounds very reasonable and like the way to go. Please send me the volume and a good formulation of the rules. That way, we already have more than one person cooking it up and it might turn out well and as intended.
I had a go at trying to formulate the changes,
you can find them here. The volume is strictly based on the RV from F1. For the rules I added a 12.7 with subsections for the floor edge, and included the floor edge in 12.2.1. I would encourage everyone to have a look, and comment if you find something wrong.
Remember: only Andre can make changes to the technical regulations. These are only suggestions
Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2023 (Grand Prix Cars)
Posted: 21 Jun 2023, 13:31
by BlueCheetah66
Would rule 12.7.1 be necessary. I assume if it was a separate part, we would still include it in vehicle body and to avoid having floating parts it would need to be connected to the floor at some point. I feel like just having the rule box and then stating rules 12.3 and 12.4 do not apply within the reference volume would be sufficient and wouldn't lead to any loophole that I could think of.
Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2023 (Grand Prix Cars)
Posted: 21 Jun 2023, 13:48
by CAEdevice
It might be interesting the possibility to include the geometry inside the new edge floor volume into the high resolution folder and to reduce the minimum thickness of everything is in the high resolution folder to 5mm (including floor fences).
Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2023 (Grand Prix Cars)
Posted: 21 Jun 2023, 14:04
by Ft5fTL
CAEdevice wrote: ↑21 Jun 2023, 13:48
reduce the minimum thickness of everything is in the high resolution folder to 5mm (including floor fences).
Wouldn't that affect the simulation times drastictly?
Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2023 (Grand Prix Cars)
Posted: 21 Jun 2023, 15:14
by CAEdevice
Ft5fTL wrote: ↑21 Jun 2023, 14:04
CAEdevice wrote: ↑21 Jun 2023, 13:48
reduce the minimum thickness of everything is in the high resolution folder to 5mm (including floor fences).
Wouldn't that affect the simulation times drastictly?
Not dramatically but yes, it would make the simulation a bit heavier.
Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2023 (Grand Prix Cars)
Posted: 21 Jun 2023, 18:17
by G-raph
Koldskaal wrote: ↑21 Jun 2023, 10:30
I had a go at trying to formulate the changes,
you can find them here. The volume is strictly based on the RV from F1. For the rules I added a 12.7 with subsections for the floor edge, and included the floor edge in 12.2.1. I would encourage everyone to have a look, and comment if you find something wrong.
Remember: only Andre can make changes to the technical regulations. These are only suggestions
First of all, thank you for having a go at this.
The main iproblem I can see with your proposal is that it is now impossible for the floor, with the floor edge removed, to comply with 12.4 (single section in Y).
Although not an issue as such, I still think that having to fully obscure RS-02-FLOOR-PLAN_V03 in the floor edge region is severely limiting the design. On all F1 car you can clearly see cuts and slots because they don't have that restriction.
Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2023 (Grand Prix Cars)
Posted: 21 Jun 2023, 23:09
by LVDH
OK, so while there are more elegant solutions to what I did, here is the small rule update:
https://mantiumchallenge.com/mvrc-rules-2023/
Mainly, I was prevented from doing better by FreeCAD.
So I have to ask, who even likes the supplied FreeCAD file?
Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2023 (Grand Prix Cars)
Posted: 22 Jun 2023, 20:06
by Zynerji
LVDH wrote: ↑21 Jun 2023, 23:09
OK, so while there are more elegant solutions to what I did, here is the small rule update:
https://mantiumchallenge.com/mvrc-rules-2023/
Mainly, I was prevented from doing better by FreeCAD.
So I have to ask, who even likes the supplied FreeCAD file?
Have you thought of contacting SolidWorks for some free 1yr accounts to their personal license? The credibility of this site and the year-over-year growth of this competition might just get some corporate sponsorship. A simple logo on all published renders would be a small price to pay. That then opens the door to a CFD server and tyre supplier sponsorship, etc, especially if the social media promotion of this series was on point.
This could then lead to using these models for sponsored online sim racing. Like a model pack for rfactor (haven't looked into anything recently). I think you guys have a hit! And I look forward to watching it continue to evolve.