F1technical.net

Right, that chassis and aero concept seemed to be a relative mess. Remember Ron saying PP showed them their 'faults' with aero design and headed them in a new direction? Mclaren is still playing catch-up on the chassis side. They could really make strides this year with the new PU and a 2nd year of development with the new aero direction.

Wazari wrote: Also although it's true that bonuses are paid for performances by all teams supplied, the amount of bonuses for each team's success is not equal. IE, a win by Williams might not be the same amount paid out as a win by Mercedes. So really you just need to make sure that all your teams supplied do better than the competitors. Then you have competition among the teams you supply and that's where things can get dicey. Technical support is one area where they can be differences as someone has previously mentioned. This is definitely a true factor.

There are also some things that can be a slightly different that may not fall under the FIA's scrutiny. One area, where maybe (just maybe) there maybe some differences. I doubt the FIA pays attention to this forum so....very minute differences in valve seat angles, a few grams differences in the valves themselves......just purely hypothetical speculation.

All success is equal at HPP (or was in 2014 anyway), whether it was customer of works team getting the podium the bonus was still the same.

Also all of the parts come from a general pool which are then built into engines which go into a pool for race use, the aren't pre-determined as to what teams they are going to. So to make differences to the same engines would be a logistical nightmare.

turbof1 wrote:Ultimately, mclaren made the correct move to Honda.

Nah, that's yet to be proven. So far only pain has come out of the partnership. Not saying you're wrong, but the partnership is still fresh.

ME4ME wrote:

turbof1 wrote:Ultimately, mclaren made the correct move to Honda.

Nah, that's yet to be proven. So far only pain has come out of the partnership. Not saying you're wrong, but the partnership is still fresh.

On the long term, the only way to win titles in the current format of F1 is to be a works team. Staying with Mercedes would not have yielded titles. Is Honda going to provide them? Perhaps, maybe. But it's the right intent in any case.

good read....

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/op ... -obsolete/

turbof1 wrote:

ME4ME wrote:

turbof1 wrote:Ultimately, mclaren made the correct move to Honda.

Nah, that's yet to be proven. So far only pain has come out of the partnership. Not saying you're wrong, but the partnership is still fresh.

On the long term, the only way to win titles in the current format of F1 is to be a works team. Staying with Mercedes would not have yielded titles. Is Honda going to provide them? Perhaps, maybe. But it's the right intent in any case.

Given enough time and the right development path Honda should be able to provide McLaren with a Power Unit to rival Mercedes. McLaren have to deliver on the chassis side but they appear to be climbing out of the rut they got themselves into. F1 has ebbed and flowed between works teams dominating and independent teams winning titles. Depends on what the formula is and how many manufacturers are in the sport or if one dominates.

I think one of the issues for McLaren with the Mercedes Power Unit was not having the right fuels and lubrications to get the most out of the power unit, then heap on the Aero woes.....

Facts Only wrote: All success is equal at HPP (or was in 2014 anyway), whether it was customer of works team getting the podium the bonus was still the same.

Also all of the parts come from a general pool which are then built into engines which go into a pool for race use, the aren't pre-determined as to what teams they are going to. So to make differences to the same engines would be a logistical nightmare.

Ok, I'm not doubting you but I have a source within HPP that says otherwise for 2014.

As to your second paragraph, I guess we will agree to disagree. I have worked and assembled F1 engines and almost all of our parts were pre-determined as to what teams there were going to, down to the block itself. Logistically not very difficult.

Wazari wrote:
As to your second paragraph, I guess we will agree to disagree. I have worked and assembled F1 engines and almost all of our parts were pre-determined as to what teams there were going to, down to the block itself. Logistically not very difficult.

Was this divvying up of parts simply part of the manufacturing and distribution process, or was it based on some type of quality control? Put another way, was the pre-determined assigning of parts a tracking and inventory solution, or was it performance based?

Nickel wrote: Was this divvying up of parts simply part of the manufacturing and distribution process, or was it based on some type of quality control? Put another way, was the pre-determined assigning of parts a tracking and inventory solution, or was it performance based?

Both.

So rumours are Honda are coming to the pre-season tests with several different PUs to test, which have different layouts for the turbo and compressor, some with have them in the V, some outside - to see which layout works best. Some rumours of 8 different PUs with 6 different turbo compressor layouts overall.

Can I clarify what this article is saying?
http://en.f1i.com/news/29295-power-unit ... -2016.html

So the following are correct?

1) there is no homologation date this season for the PUs?
2) But I read somewhere else that PU manufacturers had to submit layouts/designs to the FIA for approval BEFORE the 2 pre-season tests started.

So 1) cannot be correct if 2) is true.
Also how can 2) be correct if Honda don't know what their final layout/design is going to be?

So I am really confused. Could someone please explain the contradiction between 1) and 2)?

There are 32 tokens for in season development. So this leads to another question: So could Honda homologate the PU with the layout they have found works best after the 2 pre-season tests - literally the day before 1st practice in Australia?

Mclarettino wrote:So rumours are Honda are coming to the pre-season tests with several different PUs to test, which have different layouts for the turbo and compressor, some with have them in the V, some outside - to see which layout works best. Some rumours of 8 different PUs with 6 different turbo compressor layouts overall.

Can I clarify what this article is saying?
http://en.f1i.com/news/29295-power-unit ... -2016.html

So the following are correct?

1) there is no homologation date this season for the PUs?
2) But I read somewhere else that PU manufacturers had to submit layouts/designs to the FIA for approval BEFORE the 2 pre-season tests started.

So 1) cannot be correct if 2) is true.
Also how can 2) be correct if Honda don't know what their final layout/design is going to be?

So I am really confused. Could someone please explain the contradiction between 1) and 2)?

There are 32 tokens for in season development. So this leads to another question: So could Honda homologate the PU with the layout they have found works best after the 2 pre-season tests - literally the day before 1st practice in Australia?

There are 32 tokens to use from the end of last season to the end of this season.

Mclarettino wrote:So rumours are Honda are coming to the pre-season tests with several different PUs to test, which have different layouts for the turbo and compressor, some with have them in the V, some outside - to see which layout works best. Some rumours of 8 different PUs with 6 different turbo compressor layouts overall.

I dont think Honda will come to pre-season test with 8 different PUs. They may have put together 6 to 8 different configurations and tested each of them extensively on dyno. Basis the output, number of tokens used and development potential of each of them, they would have by now short-listed max 2 PU configurations which they may try out in the pre-season test.

Day 1 & 2 Alonso and Button respectively test PU1 while Day 3 & 4 they test test PU2. Basis data collected they select the final engine configuration and test it extensively in the second pre-season test.

Testing 8 PUs would lead to a chaos both for Honda as well as McLaren.

Why should Honda bring different PUs? They can find the better solution on dyno and I think they did it in late December, before starting the intense dyno testing on the final PU in early January.

With 8 different PUs Mclaren Honda would spend the whole day changing engines.
All engines will have the compressor inside the Vee, and i would guess only 2 different engines if they have different ones at all.

Mclarettino wrote:
There are 32 tokens for in season development. So this leads to another question: So could Honda homologate the PU with the layout they have found works best after the 2 pre-season tests - literally the day before 1st practice in Australia?

No, "Auto Motor Sport" reported last year that teams have to send detail plans about token use to the FIA 2 weeks (I hope I remember correctly) before the event = race, where they want to use them.

Maybe there are even stricter rules for the first race because there will be much more token use than during season.

But coming back to the 2 weeks, would be ok for all teams because it is after the 8 test days. Has ist to be on 28/29th February, this would be not so ideal, only after 4 test days then.

I could also imagine, when Honda is not confident after the test days that they sacrifice the first races, work hard for the next 2-3 months on optimum solutions, test it in the 3rd Barcelona test (12./13. May) and then use it and season "really" starts.