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Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 02 Dec 2014, 16:52
by dren
Kiril Varbanov wrote:Summary of tweets by Petr Hlawiczka, F1 journalist:
Everything on the F1 power unit will be made in new factory at Sakura City in Japan - all design work & testing. Facility in Milton Keynes is small - just some dynos & offices to track support. Just document work + checking over broken PUs. Arai: "No one seems to be interested in our power unit, I don't have any kind of offers at the moment." Open to 2nd team in 2016.
Who would? All the small teams will run Mercedes PUs except TR and Sauber (if Sauber makes it). I can see possibly one of them switching PUs if the Honda PU proves powerful.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 02 Dec 2014, 17:11
by Harsha
dren wrote:Kiril Varbanov wrote:Summary of tweets by Petr Hlawiczka, F1 journalist:
Everything on the F1 power unit will be made in new factory at Sakura City in Japan - all design work & testing. Facility in Milton Keynes is small - just some dynos & offices to track support. Just document work + checking over broken PUs. Arai: "No one seems to be interested in our power unit, I don't have any kind of offers at the moment." Open to 2nd team in 2016.
Who would? All the small teams will run Mercedes PUs except TR and Sauber (if Sauber makes it). I can see possibly one of them switching PUs if the Honda PU proves powerful.
If Renault Messes up big time with the lack of time im sure RBR will look to switch to honda as an option to threaten renault.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 03 Dec 2014, 22:04
by Facts Only
akshat21 wrote:
That wouldnt make sense.
If Mercedes HPP provided the maps to customer teams, what would be the guarantee of fair play.
Suppose if Mercedes were not that dominant during the season and were in a tight battle with Williams or McLaren. Would merc then provide them with with the best possible engine maps?? Knowing doing so would all but guarantee Williams the wcc and the top prize money???
Merc can suggest PU parameters. But the actual engine maps would be left to the teams to figure out.
HPP define all the maps and control there use, the amount of use for each Map is critical to engine life. The customer teams have no input into the running software of the engines (except for the links to there car specific areas like gearchanges). Considering that the customer teams don't have any access to the engine at there own facilities how woukd they even write the software? It's all done at HPP in Brixworth. The only access the teams get is to test ancillary components like clutchs, hydraulic packs and gearboxes on the Brixworth dyno's. Whether or not it makes sense is irrelevant.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 03 Dec 2014, 22:32
by Richard
McLaren will have input and output data (torque, heat, exhaust, race maps, brake balance etc) from the Merc PU to compare with the Honda engine. However what goes on inside the PU will be unknown, it'd be a black box to them.
Here's what Dennis had to say about it:
Ron Dennis wrote:A modern grand prix engine at this moment in time is not just about sheer power; it's about how you harvest the energy, store the energy and effectively if you don't have control of that process - meaning access to source code - then you are not going to be able to stabilise your car in the entry to corners, for instance, and you lose lots of lap time. So even though you have the same brand of engine you do not have the ability to optimise the engine
http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/stor ... xirCiRU.99
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 04 Dec 2014, 00:48
by PlatinumZealot
Why would Mclaren need the source code to program the ERS in such a way to stabilize the car? I think the Mclaren engineers are not too be happy with level of adjustment that they can do with the ERS - which has its own proprietary control unit- or they simply have not mastered it as well. Sour grapes.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 04 Dec 2014, 09:17
by J.A.W.
No X-rays then, or ultra sound - even on the sly?
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 04 Dec 2014, 09:21
by Thunder
J.A.W. wrote:No X-rays then, or ultra sound - even on the sly?
There was always at least one Mercedes Guy around the Engines, how would you pull that off?
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 04 Dec 2014, 09:27
by J.A.W.
Mesmerism , cash.. corruption.. sleight of hand.. ..ways & means.. .."inscrutable orientals".. or what have you..
..F1 SOP aint it?
No of course not , that would never happen, ah.. re-occur..
They've respectfully earned, ah, learned.. their lesson about 'cheating'.. ..yes, almost certainly..
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 04 Dec 2014, 11:39
by Andres125sx
Because paying to use x-ray for the engine would be much better and more simple than paying for the plans/drawings....
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 04 Dec 2014, 13:06
by FW17
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 04 Dec 2014, 19:58
by xpensive
Thunders wrote:J.A.W. wrote:No X-rays then, or ultra sound - even on the sly?
There was always at least one Mercedes Guy around the Engines, how would you pull that off?
That's easy enough, get the Mercedes guys shitfaced and throw in a few of MrM's playmates!
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 04 Dec 2014, 20:09
by PlatinumZealot
Not much will be gained by X-rays though the thought is entertaining.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 04 Dec 2014, 22:35
by J.A.W.
If a driver was to 'stall' the car at a 'certain point' away from the pit garage ..
..that just happened to be right above a 'scanner'?
Although, with 'Teutonic efficiency' allowances for the antics of 'wily oriental gentlemen'..
M-B's counter-measures 'geheim SD unit' ..likely.. ..have X-ray (& etc) detection meters insitu on their machine..
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 20:17
by michl420
Blackout wrote:Cold Fussion wrote:Why does a split turbo allow for a smaller gearbox?
The gearbox isnt really smaller IMO.
As you know, in the classic/Renault layout, the Gearbox casing hosts the turbine, the compressor and the compressor's airbox/duct. These alements obviously take more place than the Merc layout where the Gbox only containes a turbine. That means the Merc Gbox has less weight lying behind the engine and this weight (turbine and Gbox internals) is closer to the car's COG.
On top of that, a Renault/Ferrari Gbox needs bigger holes to accomodate the tubo<->engine pipework (exhaust and compressor pipes) so it reduces it's stiffness making the engineers add more stiffness and weight... In addition to that, a Merc Gbox probably has a smaller/thinner footprint on the floor compared to an encumbered Renault/Ferrari gearbox...
I think the biggest Problem of the Renault and Ferrari solution is room. They musst squeeze everything in an area where the bodywork must be tight. I do not think it has great thermal problems. On pro is that you can bring the engine closer to the Center of gravity of the car. And Red Bull use this layout to place there intercoolers in a good Position for packaging. But it Looks like to be the second best way.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 20:43
by marcush.
PlatinumZealot wrote:Not much will be gained by X-rays though the thought is entertaining.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXTkcnc ... t&index=12
resolution 0.4mm -but believe me there is more to be seen IF you really want.
