F1technical.net

bhallg2k wrote:Yes, this is a technical forum, and, by and large, comments should be focused on that aspect of F1. However, I feel the recent spate of entirely overzealous and inconsistent moderation is far worse than the vast majority of the superfluous posts that people, for whatever reason, seem to find so offensive.

Threads, like all discussions, work best when they're left to be conversational. Otherwise, this is all just dictation. Frankly, I don't know why that's not respected here on a forum that, above all else, seeks to decode a world where freedom of thought and creativity are considered priceless.

The lion's share of the complaints I ever see lodged here publicly are from members who don't seem to appreciate it when topics are discussed thoroughly down to even their smallest details or when they encompass a breadth of information that's not strictly limited to the expressed topic at hand. And that's fine. To a degree, I get that, too. But, personally, I don't see how leaving any stones unturned fosters an environment where breakthroughs of understanding can be commonplace amongst forum members from all walks of life, all over the world and with a myriad different educational backgrounds.

Of course, that could just be my OCD.

In truth, I think the complaints are the result of members who simply can't be bothered to pay attention to what's being said. This is borne out by the fact that they're often the ones most likely to repeat something that's been said or asked many times before, regularly within the same thread. It drives me absolutely nuts that conversations must be made to be disjointed and sometimes superficial in order to cater to their short attention spans.

At any rate, this isn't my forum; I don't make the rules. Hell, I might even be the lone member of the minority for whom any of this is even an issue. But, I do think my time here has come to a close. I'm far, far, far, far, far from the most technically-minded person around, so please don't think that this is some sort of attempt at a punitive action on my part; it's definitely not. This is all just supposed to be fun and games, and frustration is simply not fun for me. (I'd have liked high school a hell of a lot more were that not the case.)

I've said my piece. I'm sure I'll be lurking from time to time.

Take care, guys. Enjoy the season.

Forza Ferrari!

And --- you, WhiteBlue.

BHall: I tried to PM you,but apparently you shut down your account or something. If you read this, come back home, bro. The forum will definitely be a lesser place without you. I dislike overzealous moderating too, but its not bad enough that I'm willing to miss out on the more rational, technical discussions that are worth sticking around for.(Though I could do without the discussions where people TOTALLY ignore physics.)

donskar wrote:If anything, I'd like to see the Mods be MORE active. IMHO, we could do without the endless back-and-forth when two posters heatedly speculate over a technical point, or especially when two hero-worshippers argue that driver X is far superior to driver Y. That sort of yes-he-is, no-he-isn't thread ought to be driven off into PMs. (And, in case you're wondering, I support the Mods completely, even though they have often whacked me about the head and shoulders with their dreaded purses.)

Why do anyone's thoughts need to be cut out? How about instead of deleting and moving posts etc. a theoretical proposal could be: X number of reports on a single post gets a demerit and gets the post deleted(not quite so discretionary). Every 10 demerits gets a one month suspension. 50 demerits gets you the boot for a year.


It's just that IMHO chopping up conversations and deleting post etc. don't help as much as they're supposed to with keeping the threads flowing smoothly.

I guess I just feel like if Bhallg2k really felt like the moderating ran him off then maybe it is getting a little overdone.

I've said it's become overzealous. We don't need a hall monitor.
Only when something becomes really egregious should it be dealt with and not on every whim of the mods.
There is no need for most of this deleting and moving.

bhallg2k wrote:Ha! Perfect.

Thank you.

now that may be my only "logical post of the year" so ya going to give me a pass [-o< [-o< [-o<

Meh.

The lesson that the mods and owners here have refused to learn is that you moderate people, not posts. Bad apples are easy to spot - in fact, the few we have here are well known trolls on multiple F1 boards. One in particular has been kicked off of or banned from joining at least four separate F1 forums that I know of. But here he's welcomed, and in fact these guys are protected by the mods because they're so well practiced at pushing others into crossing the line. It's easy for the mods to say, "just don't respond", but in practice that approach never works because these guys know well where to push and what buttons to press. It's childhood playground stuff to be sure, but some never mature past it.

Pup wrote:Meh.

The lesson that the mods and owners here have refused to learn is that you moderate people, not posts. Bad apples are easy to spot - in fact, the few we have here are well known trolls on multiple F1 boards. One in particular has been kicked off of or banned from joining at least four separate F1 forums that I know of. But here he's welcomed, and in fact these guys are protected by the mods because they're so well practiced at pushing others into crossing the line. It's easy for the mods to say, "just don't respond", but in practice that approach never works because these guys know well where to push and what buttons to press. It's childhood playground stuff to be sure, but some never mature past it.

I know it's hard sometimes, but just laugh at the MF's it really pisses them off

Two gems from the last pages I couldn't agree more with:

bhallg2k wrote: ...In truth, I think the complaints are the result of members who simply can't be bothered to pay attention to what's being said. This is borne out by the fact that they're often the ones most likely to repeat something that's been said or asked many times before, regularly within the same thread. It drives me absolutely nuts that conversations must be made to be disjointed and sometimes superficial in order to cater to their short attention spans...

(I hope you are still around reading, bhallg2k.)

Pierce89 wrote:(Though I could do without the discussions where people TOTALLY ignore physics.)

On top of that, here is another reason why moderation is needed:
The season hasn't started yet. Yet...
Ferrari F2012: 115 pages.
Lotus E20 Renault: 20 pages.
Mercedes AMG F1 W03: 63 pages (plus about 20 after the sneak reveal).
Vodafone McLaren MP¤-27 Mercedes: 108 pages.
Red Bull RB8 Renault: 116 pages.
HRT F112 Cosworth: 42 pages.
Toro Rosso STR7 Ferrari: 15 pages (weird what fan preferences make).
Renault R30: 97 pages.
Williams FW34 Rennault: 22 pages.
Caterham CT-01 Renault: 28 pages.
Marussia MR01 Cosworth: 12 pages.
Sauber C31 Ferrari: 18 pages.
Force India VJM05: 11 pages.

That is AFTER the moderators pitched in to try to get people to stick to the topic, after splitting discussions and deleting Ying-Yang.
That is 687 pages 3 days before the season even starts. That is more than 10000 posts!!!

a) Do we all agree that the car threads are one of the best things in this forum?
b) Do we all agree that some members would like to know what the cars have on, and, at the same time, have a life?

If A and B apply, then c) Moderation is necessary.

strad wrote:I've said it's become overzealous. We don't need a hall monitor.
Only when something becomes really egregious should it be dealt with and not on every whim of the mods.

This board has a different approach to arguments between members than any other board I visit and post. It is pretty much a zero tolerance strategy with regard to quarrelling.

You cannot even state the obvious failures of other users to read sources for fear they may get negatively emotionally affected by such a "nasty" thing to say. Sometimes it is hard to suppress such "personal" comment and stay on the technical topic. And then you think it is nanny moderation putting the other guys in cotton wool all the time.

On the other hand this approach promotes knowledge propagation and discourages factionalism, ganging up on minority opinions, excessive ego celebration, trolling and bullying. It also prevents the fine art of personal warfare across multiple web sites where the masters of the art hunt their prey down and seek to make their lives miserable wherever they go.

The approach has up- and downsides. In the end it is for the owner to make the policy and for the users to respect it and carry on. When I'm in a mood to bash Montezemolo, Ferrari or a pet subject that may be close to anybodies heart I simply go to Autosport forums to let it rip. Fine, the tifosi will likely retaliate but I can say my thing and I'm done without having the stink here.

bhallg2k wrote:Yes, this is a technical forum, and, by and large, comments should be focused on that aspect of F1. However, I feel the recent spate of entirely overzealous and inconsistent moderation is far worse than the vast majority of the superfluous posts that people, for whatever reason, seem to find so offensive.

Agreed, before this 'overzealous' moderating came into place, what was the problem actually? I cannot remember anyone complaining in any form stating that he disliked derailing topics sometimes. I never seen any forum having a problem with derailing. For example exhaust blowing, the RB8 topic derailed into that. So to clean things up you dump it to a dedicated topic to that subject, in the F2012 topic, the same thing happened, and again it is moved to the Exhaust blowing topic. Then it is done in other topics too. So now it seems you have just cleaned the topics, but you dumped everything into one topic, making the whole great discussion people were having into one big mess. No one has any idea anymore what is actually discussed, and because of that there cfomes fights.

In first place you think you cleaned the topics, but what you have done is similair compared to cleaning your room. You start wiping the floor, but move all the mess to under your bed. You arent getting rid of the 'mess', no you're moving the 'problem'.

Threads, like all discussions, work best when they're left to be conversational. Otherwise, this is all just dictation. Frankly, I don't know why that's not respected here on a forum that, above all else, seeks to decode a world where freedom of thought and creativity are considered priceless.

Threads are always derailed at some point and people always will come back to the original subject, just a slight derail.

At any rate, this isn't my forum; I don't make the rules. Hell, I might even be the lone member of the minority for whom any of this is even an issue. But, I do think my time here has come to a close. I'm far, far, far, far, far from the most technically-minded person around, so please don't think that this is some sort of attempt at a punitive action on my part; it's definitely not. This is all just supposed to be fun and games, and frustration is simply not fun for me. (I'd have liked high school a hell of a lot more were that not the case.)

Agreed, this is a place where I come after work just to relax, see what people have discussed and found, but to see what was a single discussion I have to check out 5 different topics and put my own story together. We all know that isnt going to work. Apart from that I have to read through stupidity, ignorance and fights.

I do not see in any way why it is even necessary to split these posts up. Can anyone explain that tgo me?

I might sound like a complete a$$hole by saying this but the only problem we have here on this forum is the ignorant, annoying douchebags who think they know everything, think they are always right and then ask the most stupidest questions. The same guys who post everywhere, in every topic, apart from this one. And I think everyone in this topic know who I am talking about, hell even the mods know it.

But what is done about it? Nothing at all, it is okay to piss people off, create fights etc. But dont you dare to go off topic. Like said before, the mods here attack the posts, not the posters. And that is just wrong.

There is nothing wrong with a healthy discussion, nothing wrong with a derail, and I have yet to see anyone who disagrees with me. But the mods seem to think making sure every post is conform the forum rules is more important than moderating the same guys over and over again who are pissing everyone off, the same guys who cannot have a healthy discussion in any way, the ones who make any discussion on the forum impossible, oh and if there is a discussion going on they are able to destroy the whole discussion in one post. But hey, that is okay as long as you dont go off topic.

If you ask me the moderating team needs to 'fix' the posters, not the posts(hell start with mine if you want to)

P.S. For bonus points PM me the names of the guys you think I was talking about

WhiteBlue wrote:When I'm in a mood to bash Montezemolo, Ferrari or a pet subject that may be close to anybodies heart I simply go to Autosport forums to let it rip.

WhiteBlue wrote: ...
When I'm in a mood to bash Montezemolo, Ferrari or a pet subject that may be close to anybodies heart I simply go to Autosport forums to let it rip. Fine, the tifosi will likely retaliate but I can say my thing and I'm done without having the stink here.

I long for the day when Ferrari hires another german driver.

What are you suggesting, x?

I have this strange notion that certain tunes will change somewhat with Vettel driving a red car and celebrate with Montezuma.

Such a move is not without precedent.

Sounds a long way off right now.......