F1technical.net

Remember that this diffuser-loophole is in the middle: Exactly ahead of what would be a following car's neutral section. It's also a very narrow device - it won't affect such a broad part of the wake...

Except air doesn't work only in a vertical fashion, create an area of low pressure in the middle and air will flow into it from any adjacent area of higher pressure, including sideways. So it's area of effect is much larger than you might assume. Whether it is enough to disrupt the way the front wing is supposed to work in 2009, I have no idea. But I sincerely doubt it will have zero effect, it's just a question of whether it will have a noticeable effect and if it does then the FIA will have suffered another bout of fail.

myurr wrote:Except air doesn't work only in a vertical fashion, create an area of low pressure in the middle and air will flow into it from any adjacent area of higher pressure, including sideways. So it's area of effect is much larger than you might assume. Whether it is enough to disrupt the way the front wing is supposed to work in 2009, I have no idea. But I sincerely doubt it will have zero effect, it's just a question of whether it will have a noticeable effect and if it does then the FIA will have suffered another bout of fail.

I interprate it as the engineers are teh Winnah's!

Agerasia wrote:

myurr wrote:Except air doesn't work only in a vertical fashion, create an area of low pressure in the middle and air will flow into it from any adjacent area of higher pressure, including sideways. So it's area of effect is much larger than you might assume. Whether it is enough to disrupt the way the front wing is supposed to work in 2009, I have no idea. But I sincerely doubt it will have zero effect, it's just a question of whether it will have a noticeable effect and if it does then the FIA will have suffered another bout of fail.

I interprate it as the engineers are teh Winnah's!

Small victory it is, but a victory none the less.

The correct_TM way to look at it is, IMHO, allowing the interpretation made by Williams and Toyota. At least for this year. Then, see how this is evolving and how it affects the original intentions of the OWG. Of course, ideally one would run new tests in the McLaren simulator with Pedro Mtz de la Rosa and see the differences between the two diffusers. Depending on the conclusions, I would ban the new interpretation (rule whatever: the rear crash structure can no longer be used as a quasi-difuser) no later than 1st of July.

Max says williams toyota diffuser OK
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73140

pete555 wrote:Max says williams toyota diffuser OK
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73140

I LOVE IT!!!

Is anyone taking odds that by the end of 2010 the effective downforce levels will challenge 2006?

Toyota and Williams for the front 2 fows of the grid then for Oz, as those diffusers will make up for the lack of downforce provided by the rear wing and appandages that have been outlawed in the 2009 rules.

Ferarri, Renault, McLaren and BMW Sauber will do a radical and hastey redesign of their diffusers before Oz otherwise they will loose alot of ground quickly to Toyota and Williams.

Monday will be the most intresting day with the RB5 and STR4 being launched, so we can see Adrian Neweys new design, whitch will be full of things that will be controvercial and fresh, as per Neweys past designs have proved.

I feel that the lack of downforce will soon be made up by the end of the 2009 season to be at the levels of mid to late 2008 levels, and with late 2010 challenging 2006 levels.

However, i can see the rear wings being changed for 2010, as i can see the advertising companys saying to F1, that they need to be made bigger as there isnt enough of their name on the TV screen. I can see the rear wing looking like a hybrid of the 2008 and 2009 wing, basically the same height as the 2009 wing, but either two-thirds or three-quaters the size of the 20088 wing. But i can see that there will be a rule on the steepness of the wing being introduced tho.

Thats my vision for the rear of the car. The front will be a diffrent war ground tho.

Will the cars have to go through crash testing again if Ferrari, BMW, McLaren redesign their rear crash structures to gain the extra few mm in height?

Yes, they will have to crash test again. Even when the crashbox is unchanged but the gearbox is you will have to re-do the crashtest.

Why, oh, why is there so much crying? Is it because it is illegal? Is it because it gives an unfair advantage? Or is it because the crybaby teams are talent deficient, and cannot think outside of the 175mm box?

I think that the Toyota and Williams interpretations are pure genius, and any team that cries should instead get some new blood in their paddock, because this is what happens when your people habitually marry their cousins.

I find this statement to be somewhat misguided. It makes perfect sense for a team like Renault to seek clarification, or "cry" as you have so eloquently put it, on the legality of these diffusers.

If the Renault engineers interpreted the rule differently in the first place who is to say their initial interpretation wasn't the correct one (keep in mind Ferrari and McLaren also had a similar interpretation)? What if they began to develope a new diffuser only to have Toyota & William's designs deemed illegal? Seeking clarification regarding the legality of these designs was the only way for them to confirm that they needed to go back to the drawing board.

However they could just be on their period, that might be a more logical explanation.

Toyota and Williams for the front 2 fows of the grid then for Oz, as those diffusers will make up for the lack of downforce provided by the rear wing and appandages that have been outlawed in the 2009 rules.

Before we go drawing wild conclusions we first need to know just how much downforce these diffusers could add relative to their counterparts. Maybe they will make a huge difference, but personally I think setup is going to be the single biggest determining factor of the front row in Melbourne. In my opinion teams are dealing with so many variables that the team who gets the set up right is going to have a big advantage.

I would love to see some data regarding these diffusers though! How much additional downforce would you guys guess 3%, 5%, 7% ( I have absolutely no idea, just throwing numbers out there)?

As far as wake signature is concerned, the level of downforce in those diffusers does not matter, just like wings, as the turbulence behind is not directly proportionnal to downforce when you consider different designs.

Especially here, since they use added channels the exit areas are kept in acceptable dimensions i think.

jwielage wrote:

Why, oh, why is there so much crying? Is it because it is illegal? Is it because it gives an unfair advantage? Or is it because the crybaby teams are talent deficient, and cannot think outside of the 175mm box?

I think that the Toyota and Williams interpretations are pure genius, and any team that cries should instead get some new blood in their paddock, because this is what happens when your people habitually marry their cousins.

I find this statement to be somewhat misguided. It makes perfect sense for a team like Renault to seek clarification, or "cry" as you have so eloquently put it, on the legality of these diffusers.

If the Renault engineers interpreted the rule differently in the first place who is to say their initial interpretation wasn't the correct one (keep in mind Ferrari and McLaren also had a similar interpretation)? What if they began to develope a new diffuser only to have Toyota & William's designs deemed illegal? Seeking clarification regarding the legality of these designs was the only way for them to confirm that they needed to go back to the drawing board.

However they could just be on their period, that might be a more logical explanation.

You need to take that stuff with a bit of sarcasm. If I think that it is too vague, I will make a point of calling it sarcasm, but on the obvious ones, I don't bother.

Sorry that you missed it, because if read in the right kind of voice (whiny and tragic) it sounds absolutely hillarious!

Red Bull RB5 Diffuser:




My interpritation of it anyways.

STR4 will be much simmilar, the next one to see is the FIF VJM-02, and posibly what woould have been the Honda RA109 if they make it.