F1technical.net

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG3QwnaO4iY[/youtube]

Anyone ever considered psycho-active drugs as a secret?
If he's doing anything different it's more psychological and neurotic than physical.
He knows something that others would do well to benefit from if he wrote a book about it.
It could be a tottally new aproach to rally driving, or mental preparation, be it drugs,diet conditioning etc.

the go pill:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextroamphetamine

Military

The U.S. Air Force uses dextroamphetamine as one of its "go pills", given to pilots on long missions to help them remain focused and alert.[38][39][40][41] The Tarnak Farm incident was linked by media reports to the use of this drug on long term fatigued pilots. A military tribunal did not accept this explanation, citing the lack of similar incidents. Newer stimulant medications or awakeness promoting agents with fewer side effects, such as modafinil are being investigated and sometimes issued for this reason.[38] During the Vietnam War, Special Units of the US Military, such as MACV-SOG, were issued dextroamphetamine tablets. Due to the threat of misuse, these tablets were given to the Commanding Officer of the unit, and given out when needed.[42]

not accusing Loeb of using drugs. I haven't watched rally in years, but it's an interesting look at the issue.

ringo wrote:Anyone ever considered psycho-active drugs as a secret?
If he's doing anything different it's more psychological and neurotic than physical.
He knows something that others would do well to benefit from if he wrote a book about it.
It could be a tottally new aproach to rally driving, or mental preparation, be it drugs,diet conditioning etc.

the go pill:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextroamphetamine

Military

The U.S. Air Force uses dextroamphetamine as one of its "go pills", given to pilots on long missions to help them remain focused and alert.[38][39][40][41] The Tarnak Farm incident was linked by media reports to the use of this drug on long term fatigued pilots. A military tribunal did not accept this explanation, citing the lack of similar incidents. Newer stimulant medications or awakeness promoting agents with fewer side effects, such as modafinil are being investigated and sometimes issued for this reason.[38] During the Vietnam War, Special Units of the US Military, such as MACV-SOG, were issued dextroamphetamine tablets. Due to the threat of misuse, these tablets were given to the Commanding Officer of the unit, and given out when needed.[42]

not accusing Loeb of using drugs. I haven't watched rally in years, but it's an interesting look at the issue.

This would actually make some sence.
In swimming, I am a college swimmer at McGill, some of us ( theres a lot of negativity towards it even tho its not considered doping) take caffeine pills before races, they are called "wake ups". some take more than others, I myself have only done it a couple of times and they do give you this more alert sense of awareness. You feel more connected and aware of what your body is doing. And then, 2 hours later you have a big crash... caffeine crash, lol

I may have tried a few, ahem, substances in my life, and stupidly when I was younger did a small amount of meth-amphetamine. I never continued to do it as I was well aware of the dangers, and I am not exactly proud of it, but it did give me a perspective on speed and what it can do.

I had limited experience DJ'ing two turntables and a mixer, and never got beyond 'hack' level. While on speed I was able to spin records and mix them together like I had been doing it for ages. It truly does amp up your ability to focus on a task, and keep you ahead of sensory inputs.

It also makes you prone to do things you would never do or need to do, as it gives you so much energy it's spooky. Never again have I been struck with the urge to paint a lawn-chair gold at 3am on a weekday.

I am sure if I was to revisit that mental state, my lap times would drop in my sim racing hobby.

Giblet wrote:Never again have I been struck with the urge to paint a lawn-chair gold at 3am on a weekday.

So you usually paint lawn furniture gold at a more civilised hour?

It was more that I went through with the urge, and indeed painted it gold.

See my roommate had trouble with this particular drug, and after doing a couple of times, and painting random crap gold, I told him "Nah that's cool, you go ahead. I don't want to touch that drug ever again" and he immediately turned into a nemesis. The constant use of meth was giving him strong paranoia, and you could tell everyone was either friend or foe to his feeble brain.

A driver who was doing meth to go fast would get caught, or if not, would not have a terribly long career until the drug took over his life outside of the races.

I don't think Loeb actually does performance enhancing drugs, but I do think some people have a talent so far above most others, that they might as well be on something. The areas of the brain that are affected by drugs, are already switched on for this guy and others like him.

Any driver who is quick is able to maintain speed around corners higher than others. Kimi was known as someone who was clipping that apex at higher speed, and able to keep more momentum. This was brought to light by DC when talking about Mika, and assuming that Kimi's telemetry looked the same.

I think, quite possibly ignorantly, that Loeb's skill would be similar. Able to be sideways quicker for corers, and a better feel for that moment where you need to be transitioning from sideways to forward.

I think there is no "hidden" reason to Loeb's success. The fact that he has been to Citroen for so long time helped him to gives his inputs to the dev' of the cars. As Schumacher has done it with Ferrari : be a part of the team, a fundamental element, take the team around you, and make them build whatever you want.

So Loeb has the car he wants, the luck (he always had an amazing amount of luck), add poor opposition (he just started to rise when the great 1990s racing drivers were starting to fade away or were already out) and you have an unbeatable (or so) combination.

There is no secret there.

He was a Gymnast not a Bl**dy Ballet dancer!

He is just plan better than the rest. Mind Petter and Ogier (and Mikko and Latvalla on their days) are from the top draw.

Did anyone seem the bit on Dave on one of the last rallys of the season comparing Loebs techique on a tarmac rally corner (90 right), to that of the utterly useless Daddys boy Matt Wilson. This showed it all from a winner to a guy that hovers around the top 7 to 9 placings.

Loed was Mega late on the brakes (but totally under control - no skids), then on the gas as soon as possible using all the road on the exit. Wilson, much earlier on the brakes and on the exit coming out mid road (i.e. not using it all to maintain the fastest line / corner speed). From there camera timings just on this one corner they showed that loeb was a second fast! Just on ONE corner. Says it all and why he was fast when in a LeMan car or F1.

Belatti wrote:

andrew wrote:I think the car counts for a lot.

yep, but again if the car is that good, Sordo would have won at least a rally

Sordo has not won a rally because team orders. Loeb (or the No. 1 driver for any team) will often slow down on the last stage of day one so that the No.2 can go earlier on day two and "sweep the roads" for the guy with the best chance of winning. Perfectly legal in rally.

IMO Loeb is sucessful because
-good team
-good car
-loads of natural talent
-his "circut type" driving style other posters have talked about earlier
-and a little bit of luck

After playing a little while in the Loeb´s Challenge of GT5 and reading the advice there "the less slide as posible will lead to better laptimes" I found another reason, wich is he drives the rally car as if was not a rally car at all. I dont know, but at least the game is made in such a way you loose time if driving in a spectacular way...

Two comments:

1. It is very hard for persons like the WRC to use drugs. I guess you already have read Appendix A to International Code of International Sporting Code. We have already spoken about the WADA List of substances...

This standards were adopted in 2003 by most of major sports organizations... but not by FIA which, FYI, adopted them in its entirety in December 2010 (one month ago).

Nonetheless, since 2006 the Appendix A was almost identical to the International Standards. Those of you that have followed previous discussions on this issue or that read the Codes every year could have noticed the changes, something we had mentioned a couple of years ago.

Right now there is campaign to make more strict the testing at junior karting events, so it defies imagination to atribute WRC the possibility of being so stupid as to risk his career, knowing in advance that he is going to be tested for substances at the end of each race he wins.

2. The techniques for rally driving are well known. I guess it was Tazio Nuvolari the man who could be credited with inventing the slide, when Enzo Ferrari was not only alive but also young.

What Loebs knows what we don't know is how to win the WRC. You don't get that through techniques, but by devoting your entire life to this goal. There is no trick, is your soul what you have to put on the balance.

I quote again the technique, as described by Mr. Ferrari (it must be the third time I do it in this forum, sorry you guys).

"At the first bend, I had the clear sensation that Tazio had taken it badly and that we would end up in the ditch; I felt myself stiffen as I waited for the crunch. Instead, we found ourselves on the next straight with the car in a perfect position. I looked at him, his rugged face was calm, just as it always was, and certainly not the face of someone who had just escaped a hair-raising spin. I had the same sensation at the second bend. By the fourth or fifth bend I began to understand; in the meantime, I had noticed that through the entire bend Tazio did not lift his foot from the accelerator, and that, in fact, it was flat on the floor. As bend followed bend, I discovered his secret. Nuvolari entered the bend somewhat earlier than my driver's instinct would have told me to. But he went into the bend in an unusual way: with one movement he aimed the nose of the car at the inside edge, just where the curve itself started. His foot was flat down, and he had obviously changed down to the right gear before going through this fearsome rigmarole. In this way he put the car into a four-wheel drift, making the most of the thrust of the centrifugal force and keeping it on the road with the traction of the driving wheels. Throughout the bend the car shaved the inside edge, and when the bend turned into the straight the car was in the normal position for accelerating down it, with no need for any corrections."

-- Enzo Ferrari --

Notice that this (for me) is not the same as drifting, where you throw your ass (sorry) more than what is needed in a regular racing car and you have to countersteer. You use drifting ONLY when you have an ultralight overpowered car, like most motorcycle racers tend to do (if there is a racing machine that has more power than what it needs is a racing bike). If you want to learn about drifting, well, then look for Kunimitsu Takahashi in Youtube.

1. I literally hate drifting. I prefer Gymkhana

2. Loeb doesnt drift and more, he even doesnt use Tazios technique as a way to drive. Or may I say, he uses it the least he can.

This is quite a good graphic, I know this doesn't explain why he's faster overall but is an example of a different technique he uses.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0KzyhqZ4_A[/youtube]

Jackie Stewart said "it's not how late you brake but how soon you come off them that matters".

Loeb seems to agree (based on that short clip).

I find this extremely wise.

vyselegend wrote:From what I've read from his interviews and some analysis by other rally drivers, what Loeb imposed to the sport was unspectacular driving (in that regard maybe we could say he's the Prost -or Button- of rallying):

-No more sliding. Circuit-type approach, the less time spent between corner entry and exit by elimination of sliding, countersteer, etc (everything spectacular). Although, unlike Prost, Loeb is still spectacular to watch (well, not him but his car) because when Prost was faster on a track by being clean it was quite boring, but being faster in rally leads you to steer tighter, jump higher and brake harder, which is fun to watch.

- The second point is physical preparation. Like Schumacher in F1, Loeb brung with him this athletical philosophy. Every professional driver must stay fit, but as a former professional gymnast Seb raised the level of that concept, being VERY fit to drive. THAT could be the crucial factor in making less mistakes, in such a physically demanding sport.

- Third is... Luck! Incredible luck. That sort of luck undispensable to be a champ 7 times. Other drivers had the quality to whistand his pace, but in the same tight trajectory they've hit a rock, putting the same wheel off the track they rolled while he didn't, etc. Ala Shumacher, again. No crappy failures at the wrong time, forgiveness from the car in mistakes...

- And lastly (probably it should have been the first point...) Loeb has an excellent co-driver, Daniel Elena, and a very proved pace notes system. That is probably the most intriguing factor, the harder to analyse, because pace notes quality depends of the driver's way of thining, and is further inflenced by his language. To be honnest even for a french it's not easy to decrypt what Elena tells exactly, for exemple I've not understood if the numbers linked to a corner are determined by the angle of the corner or the gear/ speed you have to carry in. Also, they use short words to describe essential thing, it's a complicated language I found. If I traduct a few corners in english, it gives something like: "long right 6 on left 4 plus plus, 600, right flat out on sky 180, half-long left no apex opens on long right 5, rock"... Something like that. Hard to say if the codes used by other drivers are better or not, because it's something very "tweaked" to a driver's mind. I believe here lies the most "tenth gaining" factor, in the thousands of seconds gained at every instruction by understanding them as instinctively as possible.