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It's becoming increasingly unlikely that qualy modes will be banned for Spa.
I hear FIA have sent out a draft TD over the weekend for teams to review. This week FIA staff are on holiday so we won't hear anything until next week.

Does anyone know the reasoning why TDs aren't made public?

MtthsMlw wrote: ↑

17 Aug 2020, 19:56

Does anyone know the reasoning why TDs aren't made public?

In case people understand them. That would mean trouble when they have to be enforced.

Big Tea wrote: ↑

17 Aug 2020, 19:57

MtthsMlw wrote: ↑

17 Aug 2020, 19:56

Does anyone know the reasoning why TDs aren't made public?

In case people understand them. That would mean trouble when they have to be enforced.

pretty much, if they actually published them the general public would probably tear them to shreds.

Big Tea wrote: ↑

16 Aug 2020, 23:54

Mchamilton wrote: ↑

16 Aug 2020, 23:50

Big Tea wrote: ↑

16 Aug 2020, 23:40

It would have 'party mode' equivalent up to 15k if needed without the driver having to switch anything. If it is not needed continue to change at 12.5.

A new ore in this came from Sam Collins in the Sky chat today. He recons the Merc is just too powerful for the tyres and is tearing them up. Did the suggestion of reducing modes come from them? They are not going to give away an advantage they can not use if someone else can use it. But if it is no good to them, stop anyone else getting it too

when did you last see an f1 car rev to 15k rpm though? i highly doubt they do any of their reliability testing etc based on any significant usage of such rpm.

There is no advantage to doing so now due to max fuel flow. If it became the new 'qualli mode' there would be. There would be higher wear rates, but it would have to be accounted as party mode is now.

Correct. it is not like anybody can get any additional power-output over and above the point of max-fuel-flow rate.

I just wonder if proposed rules and/or ECU possibilities would allow for switching engine to party mode (or hammer time mode during the race) for single lap if you rev it over 13000 rpm just for short time?

Mudflap wrote: ↑

17 Aug 2020, 19:50

It's becoming increasingly unlikely that qualy modes will be banned for Spa.
I hear FIA have sent out a draft TD over the weekend for teams to review. This week FIA staff are on holiday so we won't hear anything until next week.

Thanks for the intel.

When you say it's unlikely for Spa, does that also mean it's unlikely for '20 as well?

piast9 wrote: ↑

17 Aug 2020, 21:39

I just wonder if proposed rules and/or ECU possibilities would allow for switching engine to party mode (or hammer time mode during the race) for single lap if you rev it over 13000 rpm just for short time?

The problem with revving that high is the engines are optimised for the 10-12k region and power drops off above that.

piast9 wrote: ↑

17 Aug 2020, 21:39

I just wonder if proposed rules and/or ECU possibilities would allow for switching engine to party mode (or hammer time mode during the race) for single lap if you rev it over 13000 rpm just for short time?

I don’t know about additional engine revs, but the way I’m reading it drivers must complete a certain number of laps of the race with the engine mode used In quali

So it doesn't say you can’t use a more-powerful mode during the race for say...overtake or hammer time

the EDGE wrote: ↑

17 Aug 2020, 23:11

piast9 wrote: ↑

17 Aug 2020, 21:39

I just wonder if proposed rules and/or ECU possibilities would allow for switching engine to party mode (or hammer time mode during the race) for single lap if you rev it over 13000 rpm just for short time?

I don’t know about additional engine revs, but the way I’m reading it drivers must complete a certain number of laps of the race with the engine mode used In quali

So it doesn't say you can’t use a more-powerful mode during the race for say...overtake or hammer time

But do you have to hit maximum revs while the mode is engaged?
I mentioned this earlier. the 'advanced power' could be there with timing advance and injection or whatever is needed but only from 1250 up, and in normal race mode the driver shifts at 1250 as now.

The mode is there, and selected, but the engine damage is not inflicted.

Yes I now several things would have to be changed as the peak power tops at 1250 now, but lets call it, if needed mode.

the EDGE wrote: ↑

17 Aug 2020, 23:11

piast9 wrote: ↑

17 Aug 2020, 21:39

I just wonder if proposed rules and/or ECU possibilities would allow for switching engine to party mode (or hammer time mode during the race) for single lap if you rev it over 13000 rpm just for short time?

I don’t know about additional engine revs, but the way I’m reading it drivers must complete a certain number of laps of the race with the engine mode used In quali

So it doesn't say you can’t use a more-powerful mode during the race for say...overtake or hammer time

So party mode won’t really be banned in qualifying, but they’ll just have to use the same mode both in qualifying and race? If someone manages to build an engine capable of using max possible mode in qualifying and several laps in race without it breaking apart after only 3 races, they would be allowed to do so?

LM10 wrote: ↑

17 Aug 2020, 23:43

the EDGE wrote: ↑

17 Aug 2020, 23:11

piast9 wrote: ↑

17 Aug 2020, 21:39

I just wonder if proposed rules and/or ECU possibilities would allow for switching engine to party mode (or hammer time mode during the race) for single lap if you rev it over 13000 rpm just for short time?

I don’t know about additional engine revs, but the way I’m reading it drivers must complete a certain number of laps of the race with the engine mode used In quali

So it doesn't say you can’t use a more-powerful mode during the race for say...overtake or hammer time

So party mode won’t really be banned in qualifying, but they’ll just have to use the same mode both in qualifying and race? If someone manages to build an engine capable of using max possible mode in qualifying and several laps in race without it breaking apart after only 3 races, they would be allowed to do so?

No one outside of the teams has any idea what the fia is planning or if it will even go through.

With that in mind, you are basically saying what a lot of us have said. It doesn't matter if they have to use the map for every lap, or x% of laps, the team with the most reliability and/or power will just redo the maps to make sure the pu lasts the needed numbers of races.

If the FIA is incredibly lucky, the qualifying gap between teams will shrink a little, qualifying will be slower, and races will be a little faster.

If the FIA is wrong, the qualifying gap will grow, the race pace gap will grow, and the races will become a procession like we have never seen before.

The latter.

zibby43 wrote: ↑

17 Aug 2020, 22:13

Mudflap wrote: ↑

17 Aug 2020, 19:50

It's becoming increasingly unlikely that qualy modes will be banned for Spa.
I hear FIA have sent out a draft TD over the weekend for teams to review. This week FIA staff are on holiday so we won't hear anything until next week.

Thanks for the intel.

When you say it's unlikely for Spa, does that also mean it's unlikely for '20 as well?

I haven't the foggiest.. somehow I doubt FIA know either.

What would be interesting to know is if 'the one mode' can be changed from track to track or is locked for the entire season.

It sounds unreasonable to force teams to use a fixed engine map irrespective of track conditions, yet allowing them to change it for each race sounds exploitable and not particularly in line with the cost reduction initiative.

Mudflap wrote: ↑

18 Aug 2020, 00:59

It sounds unreasonable to force teams to use a fixed engine map irrespective of track conditions, yet allowing them to change it for each race sounds exploitable and not particularly in line with the cost reduction initiative.

Related (but off-topic) - is the reason for fixing gear ratios per season also cost reduction? Or is there additional disincentive here that isn't clear to me.