F1technical.net

amho wrote:

isullivan wrote:Speed trap from day 3 of testing
1 Nasr, 338.5km/h
2 Hamilton, 337.5km/h
3 Massa, 334.3km/h
4 Hulkenberg, 333.3km/h
5 Haryanto, 333.3km/h
6 Magnussen, 332.3km/h
7 Grosjean, 331.2km/h
8 Raikkonen, 331.2km/h
9 Rosberg, 328.2km/h
10 Sainz, 327.2km/h
11 Kvyat, 322.3km/h
12 Button, 320.4km/h

so Mclaren top speed is lower than last year (326 km/h) which says that they are not running the engine at full power so which should wait for true picture of honda engine..

I agree. I don't think they are showing their full potential.

They should be ashamed after yesterday's fail an today's lack of running, last year they had a lot of excuses but now I just can't find a proper reason to this complete lack of running.

ojlopez wrote:

amho wrote:

isullivan wrote:Speed trap from day 3 of testing
1 Nasr, 338.5km/h
2 Hamilton, 337.5km/h
3 Massa, 334.3km/h
4 Hulkenberg, 333.3km/h
5 Haryanto, 333.3km/h
6 Magnussen, 332.3km/h
7 Grosjean, 331.2km/h
8 Raikkonen, 331.2km/h
9 Rosberg, 328.2km/h
10 Sainz, 327.2km/h
11 Kvyat, 322.3km/h
12 Button, 320.4km/h

so Mclaren top speed is lower than last year (326 km/h) which says that they are not running the engine at full power so which should wait for true picture of honda engine..

I agree. I don't think they are showing their full potential.

Yet the engine still blew up after what I consider a too short distance.

And again, none of the teams are showing their full potential...

Joseki wrote:They should be ashamed after yesterday's fail an today's lack of running, last year they had a lot of excuses but now I just can't find a proper reason to this complete lack of running.

Agreed, this ''small'' issues are causing them huge setbacks. Yesterday a oil leak now water leak?! This is now unacceptable from both Honda & Mclaren.

I wouldn't say anyone should be ashamed. Things can go wrong in Testing. See Ferrari Yesterday. But after the Hydraulic leak yesterday i must say todays Problems worry me a bit. They shouldn't have that many Problems. Hopefully it is just a faulty Part and no Design issue.

Last year an MGU-K seal now another one?

Phil wrote:
Why is it that Honda here is singled out again and again as the one within the chain that is underperforming? As far as I understand, the size-zero concept is not something that originated from Honda, but from McLaren, because they obviously have certain aero goals they want to achieve. Naturally, it takes two to find the right balance - the aero is only as effective if the engine is not too compromised, but it also takes a certain amount of expertise and confidence to know what can be achieved with the PU within the boundaries that are set.

1.)
McLaren is stubborn in wanting to keep it in order to gain an aero advantage and confident the engine can produce enough within that space they have given it

Even so Honda are the specialists. They need to be the ones to say look here we cannot give you the best engine with the kind of packaging that you want. We make the engines, you dont. We cannot make it like that. What we can do is make it 100mm longer and you get 120 more horsepower which far outweighs any aero gain you may have had it been smaller.
This is why i blame Honda, they didn't have the backbone and cojones to deny Ron. They have the position of power because they didnt have to come into Formula1. Ron was the desperate one so he should have been the one accepting compromises.

2.)
Honda is confident they can achieve whatever performance levels that is required/targeted within those boundaries

Yes, they underestimated the challenge clearly. They were very bullish talking about wining in the later part of the 2015 season.

3.)
as a team, one or the other, they are confident that both elements (aero + engine) working at their full potential is fast enough to be 'competitive' and race winning

I guess.

Having read a lot in this topic and what Wazari has posted, I can see why they are pursuing that design choice, but I do wonder if it is a "winning formula/package". Maybe the struggles that are to be seen from the outside are simply a logical conclusion to a design philosophy that is too hard to achieve or simply not possible? In other words; a design choice leading into a dead-end because it just won't be good enough, no matter how elegant or efficient it ends up being?

And if this is really the case, I do wonder how much of it is Honda's fault. I think I'd look at it more as a failing of both parties, or setting too high goals/targets that are practically unachievable, where a more conservative approach might have yielded better results?

Boy.. based on what i always say about F1 regulations.. there is 1 optimum design theoretically, i think they are going down a dead end. Mercedes is approaching that fabled optimum design. Just my opinion.

Even worse, if this is even half way accurate and the reason for their on-going struggles (if you could call it that), how easily could this be changed? It's not as if you can simply change your design direction - following a different design choice would also mean an entire new car would have to be built, potentially setting them back by another 1 season? Seems to be they're stuck at least to go with the size-zero for this season, regardless how well they can get the package to work

They need to just take the risk and stick the dang compressor out the front of the engine and increase its size and do the same for the turbine and MGUH; Go big or go home. Makes no sense be conservative if they have no wins to their hybrid engine. At lease the other engines have wins to their names.

I wonder what failed, gasket, seal, failed pump? Knock on effect from heat soak?

When Ted asked Boullier if the straight line speed is better than last year, the Boullier pretty much said that he has no idea (with his own words). Wow, surely he would have said "YES" if the data showed some improvements and it's not like that's a rocket science to study the data considering all the variables. No wonder Arai got sacked (please don't start with this "planned changes" cover-up argument).

RicME85 wrote:Woah! Did I just see someone on the internet apologise?
Fair play.

Haha...........yes, you did

I won't go on with it any more, because it doesn't belong here most likely, but I never meant to be any sort of internet warrior and put someone down.
I actually dislike those type of people immensely, and felt it would only be right to apologise.

I do feel quite stupid to have taken the original comment the wrong way to be honest..............

Looking at what Honda has done this year, Ferrari's last years effort really was monumental. They practically came up with top of the line reliable PU after running around the track with complete turd in the back of the car a year before. That was also in time when it wasn't known if tokens will be able to be spent during season =D>

Maybe Renault isn't that bad after all...At least their dedication to F1 and funding wasn't anywhere close to what Honda is trying to do.

dot235 wrote:When Ted asked Boullier if the straight line speed is better than last year, the Boullier pretty much said that he has no idea (with his own words). Wow, surely he would have said "YES" if the data showed some improvements and it's not like that's a rocket science to study the data considering all the variables. No wonder Arai got sacked (please don't start with this "planned changes" cover-up argument).

This is a coverup. we all must realize that Honda is not good enough to compete at this level.hydraulic and then coolent leak , they are just hiding big problems.i guess all reports that engine is unreliable were true.i am damn sure they will be last on the grid in melbourne. Alonso must be thinking even GP2 engines are more reliable

But the Anglo-Japanese collaboration will return to action on Friday and Saturday, having booked the Circuit de Catalunya for exclusive ‘filming’ runs.

anyone aware which engine version will be used during "filming" run.

New Honda boss Yasuke Hasegawa said: "To summarise our first four days of testing, we had a positive start, with confirmation of the improvement of the ERS deployment.

"However, the latter days revealed there are areas of the power unit reliability we need to work on to prepare for Australia onwards.

"In the second test next week, we are aiming to gauge the full performance of the car."

very bad https://twitter.com/YUKIOSEKImaddog/sta ... 0755445760 http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/35663546