F1technical.net

Alexitation wrote:

GoranF1 wrote:

bonjon1979 wrote:
Is this a conversation you personally had? With whom, out of interest? CHeers in advance,

for the sake of future update its better not to say.

So they expect no improvement before the 11th race (Hungary), at the end of July.
I find this really strange. They said they identified the main issues well before the end of the 2015 season. They also said that they would be able to fix them during winter break. I would have imagined that they were working on this issues since they found them (More than 6 months now).
How is it possible that they won't be able to fix the main issues until the middle of this season? What did they work on during winter break?
I understand that designing and building these engines takes time but come on...

There's a difference between identifying an issue and being able to solve it in a tight time frame with a defacto deadline to submit a Power Unit to the FIA for inspection. The other issue is it appears Honda was unsure of which direction to go in, but given the changes that should be resolved now.

The first test has gone fairly well for McLaren in terms of gathering aero data, less so on the Power Unit front. But the slow and methodical approach Honda appears to be taking may yield results in the long run. Or it might not.

The key questions for the next test and Q1 in Oz are - What's the power deficit to the other PU manufacturers and with the wick turned up how reliable will the power unit be when it's put under stress.

Q1 will probably give the answer on how well/badly the season will go before Honda can bring upgrades that may or may not work. Of course Honda may have decided to bin this season already and use it as an extended test session for 2017.

One more test and then Melbourne. Let's wait and see what happens with the PU. I suspect Honda was not running their PU at full power so the team could get through their aero testing.

Following article on marca suggests that Honda has homologated an engine which debut directly at the Australian grand prix and is not the one that will be used next week.

http://www.marca.com/motor/formula1/201 ... b4657.html

Honda homologate a different yesterday failed Alonso and Button Wednesday engine, and also different from the next week. Reach the first day of Australia to debut.

It 's not about any of the specifications tested this week, nor those assembled next. These are intermediate versions of Honda to start preseason. The choice will not test on track to Melbourne, where he will test on Friday morning for the first time in the Free 1 Grand Prix. A whole blind date to start the World 2016 , which will run again on a fine wire for team Dennis, Boullier and yours.It is not a matter of being optimistic nor pessimistic, but to tell what happens. The funny thing is that the MP4-31 should return to the track today , it is the first of two days reserved for the day filming team. That if a new engine of Britain, which yesterday had expected McLaren to complete the 100 kilometers permitted in shooting commercials for sponsors arrives. Alonso and Button has gathered today in Montmelo.

Vegetabill wrote:
I think this would be a difficult question for him to answer at this early stage of development. We are all guessing but none of us know what combination they are running of specs of ICE, fuel, MGUK, MGUH, batteries, mapping, wing angle, fuel load.... the list goes on its to big for my tiny mind . I think we all need to calm down a little bit and wait until there is confirmation all the things Honda have worked on over the winter are on the car and see how its performance characteristics are when analysed sensibly.

That's precisely why this interview was with Boullier and not with us

He knows all of that, and I simply refuse to believe that they don't have enough data to know if the straight line speed affected by engine improved or not. Especially since they were literally terrible last year (remember Sainz storming past Alonso or overtakes by 2-3 other cars on a single straight?).

Besides, teams know a heck of a lot more than they are telling us. Rosberg recently hinted that Merc engineers already kinda calculated their speed relative to others and pretty much figured out the positions of most other teams and that things like the amount of fuel someone is running isn't really that big of a secret. Of course with upgrades numbers are expected to change, but not by drastic amount.

So if straight line speed was better, I'am pretty sure we would know it by now cause what's the point of avoiding the positive answer otherwise if it's not negative.

damager21 wrote:Following article on marca suggests that Honda has homologated an engine which debut directly at the Australian grand prix and is not the one that will be used next week.

http://www.marca.com/motor/formula1/201 ... b4657.html

Honda homologate a different yesterday failed Alonso and Button Wednesday engine, and also different from the next week. Reach the first day of Australia to debut.

It 's not about any of the specifications tested this week, nor those assembled next. These are intermediate versions of Honda to start preseason. The choice will not test on track to Melbourne, where he will test on Friday morning for the first time in the Free 1 Grand Prix. A whole blind date to start the World 2016 , which will run again on a fine wire for team Dennis, Boullier and yours.It is not a matter of being optimistic nor pessimistic, but to tell what happens. The funny thing is that the MP4-31 should return to the track today , it is the first of two days reserved for the day filming team. That if a new engine of Britain, which yesterday had expected McLaren to complete the 100 kilometers permitted in shooting commercials for sponsors arrives. Alonso and Button has gathered today in Montmelo.

All of this seems to be a giant mess. I guess we wont have any answers on performance/reliability until Melbourne.

Alexitation wrote:All of this seems to be a giant mess. I guess we wont have any answers on performance/reliability until Melbourne.

Indeed so. How can anyone think this is an acceptable way to test anything?

dot235 wrote:

Vegetabill wrote:
I think this would be a difficult question for him to answer at this early stage of development. We are all guessing but none of us know what combination they are running of specs of ICE, fuel, MGUK, MGUH, batteries, mapping, wing angle, fuel load.... the list goes on its to big for my tiny mind . I think we all need to calm down a little bit and wait until there is confirmation all the things Honda have worked on over the winter are on the car and see how its performance characteristics are when analysed sensibly.

That's precisely why this interview was with Boullier and not with us

He knows all of that, and I simply refuse to believe that they don't have enough data to know if the straight line speed affected by engine improved or not. Especially since they were literally terrible last year (remember Sainz storming past Alonso or overtakes by 2-3 other cars on a single straight?).

Besides, teams know a heck of a lot more than they are telling us. Rosberg recently hinted that Merc engineers already kinda calculated their speed relative to others and pretty much figured out the positions of most other teams and that things like the amount of fuel someone is running isn't really that big of a secret. Of course with upgrades numbers are expected to change, but not by drastic amount.

So if straight line speed was better, I'am pretty sure we would know it by now cause what's the point of avoiding the positive answer otherwise if it's not negative.

I can see your point. But from the press reports on here it seems McLaren will not have the entire new power unit and new fuel until Melbourne, which kind of puts them at a disadvantage to Merc when comparing themselves to last years car or other teams. I think we can all agree that dyno simulations can be taken with a pinch of salt. Also the point I tried to make earlier was that I am expecting a car design this year that will be slower in a straight line looking at PP's previous cars. So even a moderate improvement in power may not show in the speed trap. I'm just hoping a car that is well balanced, brakes well, good apex speed and deploys well out of corners will make them less of a sitting duck if your fears are confirmed [-o<

Glad you changed your spelling!!

munudeges wrote:

Alexitation wrote:All of this seems to be a giant mess. I guess we wont have any answers on performance/reliability until Melbourne.

Indeed so. How can anyone think this is an acceptable way to test anything?

it doesn't make any sense if true that lead me to think 2016 power unit tested and they beat the sh*t out of it already in
super formula car

hemichromis wrote:Glad you changed your spelling!!

Haha thought I'd caught that

So what happened to this guy? Wasn't he a consultant to Honda after PURE wound up?

What did people expect from this first test? It looks like people was expecting McHonda in first positions of the timetable since day 1

Honda had too many things to test before going for perfomance, so please, calm down. PUs are too complicated to re-design it entirely and expect it will work perfectly from day 1, there are a lot of elements wich cause cascade effects on many others when modified, so you cannot change one piece and expect the rest of the PU will continue performing the same, or change too many pieces at once without going into unknown territory

What if they need to test some new parts before installing some others to evaluate?

What if they want a first test without incidents to test new aero parts as we´ve seen and avoid a similar situation to past pre-season when they couldn´t test any new part?



It has always surprise me how people try to get too many conclusions from pre-season testing, but this time, with just 4 days of testing and a whole new PU to test both reliability and perfomance wise, it´s amazing how can people think they´ve seen enough and McHonda will be as disastrous as past season


Thanks god this is F1T, I can´t imagine the discussions in other sites

Andres125sx wrote: What if they need to test some new parts before installing some others to evaluate?

The days of unlimited testing are over, now you get only 8 days before season starts.

Honda and Mclaren need to develop more simulation tools that can do this off the track. Be it a chassis dynamometer or a climatic wind tunnel they need to come up with something.

Andres125sx wrote:What did people expect from this first test? It looks like people was expecting McHonda in first positions of the timetable since day 1

Honda had too many things to test before going for perfomance, so please, calm down. PUs are too complicated to re-design it entirely and expect it will work perfectly from day 1, there are a lot of elements wich cause cascade effects on many others when modified, so you cannot change one piece and expect the rest of the PU will continue performing the same, or change too many pieces at once without going into unknown territory

What if they need to test some new parts before installing some others to evaluate?

What if they want a first test without incidents to test new aero parts as we´ve seen and avoid a similar situation to past pre-season when they couldn´t test any new part?



It has always surprise me how people try to get too many conclusions from pre-season testing, but this time, with just 4 days of testing and a whole new PU to test both reliability and perfomance wise, it´s amazing how can people think they´ve seen enough and McHonda will be as disastrous as past season


Thanks god this is F1T, I can´t imagine the discussions in other sites

Good Post, I couldn't agree with you more! it is very frustrating but people throwing out wild prediction's off the back of a couple of bad day's testing isn't needed. Anyway people get excited by what times they can post and yet the won't have a definitive package Pu wise until Melbourne.

FW17 wrote:

Andres125sx wrote: What if they need to test some new parts before installing some others to evaluate?

The days of unlimited testing are over, now you get only 8 days before season starts.

Honda and Mclaren need to develop more simulation tools that can do this off the track. Be it a chassis dynamometer or a climatic wind tunnel they need to come up with something.

Honda have both as far as I know.