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SectorOne wrote:So you can quickly see that a longer car is simply easier to control then a shorter one

That´s what I have always tought, and the reason Alonso´s statement saying current cars are too difficult to slide because they´re too long surprised me

Keep in mind he´s driven F1 cars with 3050mm wheelbase, 3100, 3200, 3500 and 3520mm, so he has some experience

FW17 wrote: Wheel bases
1997
2800 mm

1998
2900

2003
3100

2006
3050

2009
3200

2011
3500

2015
3520

Maybe he just means they are too planted / stable.

Andres125sx wrote:

SectorOne wrote:So you can quickly see that a longer car is simply easier to control then a shorter one

That´s what I have always tought, and the reason Alonso´s statement saying current cars are too difficult to slide because they´re too long surprised me

I don´t think that would contradict anything Alonso said because getting something to slide is different from managing something while sliding.
edit: although i don´t know the full quote so just going based on your post here.

Yet another reason refuelling is good - a big part of this length came from increased fuel tank size in 2010.

Sometimes even I'm surprised about how I can be so right about something - sometimes for reasons I didn't even know about!

f1316 wrote:Yet another reason refuelling is good - a big part of this length came from increased fuel tank size in 2010.

Sometimes even I'm surprised about how I can be so right about something - sometimes for reasons I didn't even know about!

Any examples of exciting races from the refueling era that had passes happen on track?

TBH I'd love to see how refueling would work with the current Pirelli rubber.

f1316 wrote:Yet another reason refuelling is good - a big part of this length came from increased fuel tank size in 2010.

Sometimes even I'm surprised about how I can be so right about something - sometimes for reasons I didn't even know about!

I don't think the fuel tank of the current car would be much smaller if refuelling was allowed.

The fact is that there is quite a bit of space between the back of the engine, including turbo, and the front of the gearbox.

The two main reasons for the length of the current cars are aerodynamics and the mandated weight balance range.

By having the longer wheelbase/overall length the weight of the engine brings the weight balance forward. If they had kept the current front tyre width to go with the wider rear tyres for next year the cars may have become shorter as the teams sought to move weight rearwards.

The longer wheelbase allows for a longer underbody, as that is defined with distances from the wheel centrelines. A longer body means more surface area below to create downforce. And it also makes for better flow control over the top of teh body and floor, allowing for lower drag and improved df generation.

SR71 wrote:

f1316 wrote:Yet another reason refuelling is good - a big part of this length came from increased fuel tank size in 2010.

Sometimes even I'm surprised about how I can be so right about something - sometimes for reasons I didn't even know about!

Any examples of exciting races from the refueling era that had passes happen on track?

This has been discussed many times. It's off-topic but is, for example, a race like Spain 2013 - absolutely full of passes - more exciting than San Marino 2005 where there were, to my count, 2 passes (and the primary thing people remember was a driver being able to fend off a much faster car).

Also I don't think overtakes increasing has anything to do with refuelling - they were still low in 2010 pre-Drs and Pirellis.

wuzak wrote:

f1316 wrote:Yet another reason refuelling is good - a big part of this length came from increased fuel tank size in 2010.

Sometimes even I'm surprised about how I can be so right about something - sometimes for reasons I didn't even know about!

I don't think the fuel tank of the current car would be much smaller if refuelling was allowed.

The fact is that there is quite a bit of space between the back of the engine, including turbo, and the front of the gearbox.

The two main reasons for the length of the current cars are aerodynamics and the mandated weight balance range.

By having the longer wheelbase/overall length the weight of the engine brings the weight balance forward. If they had kept the current front tyre width to go with the wider rear tyres for next year the cars may have become shorter as the teams sought to move weight rearwards.

The longer wheelbase allows for a longer underbody, as that is defined with distances from the wheel centrelines. A longer body means more surface area below to create downforce. And it also makes for better flow control over the top of teh body and floor, allowing for lower drag and improved df generation.

I just grabbed this from the web so probably not to scale, but you can see the difference in car length when the refuelling was abolished:

f1316 wrote:

SR71 wrote:

f1316 wrote:Yet another reason refuelling is good - a big part of this length came from increased fuel tank size in 2010.

Sometimes even I'm surprised about how I can be so right about something - sometimes for reasons I didn't even know about!

Any examples of exciting races from the refueling era that had passes happen on track?

This has been discussed many times. It's off-topic but is, for example, a race like Spain 2013 - absolutely full of passes - more exciting than San Marino 2005 where there were, to my count, 2 passes (and the primary thing people remember was a driver being able to fend off a much faster car).

Also I don't think overtakes increasing has anything to do with refuelling - they were still low in 2010 pre-Drs and Pirellis.

I agree the quality of passing and defending is more exciting than quantity.

But there is no way refueling comes back - we are and should be moving towards fully electric and adding refueling is a giant step backwards.

It's only helped by the fact that only a handful of races from that era were memorable. We can do better.

Don't agree but you're right that mine seems a forlorn cause - I don't think it's going to happen

Maybe if they can strike a balance between proper tyres and more than one stop next year I'll change my mind

Not a fan of full electric "Motorsports"...

I would like to see refuelling come back a hot swappable fuel pods. Make them a twist-lock, drop in cylinder that is filled before the driver enters the pits. Get rid of flow restrictions, but homologate the pods to 25 kilos or something. That way can get the best racing tyres possible, but still force 3 stop races to refuel.

I think it would help a lot of the current issues in F1.

Zynerji wrote:Not a fan of full electric "Motorsports"...

I would like to see refuelling come back a hot swappable fuel pods. Make them a twist-lock, drop in cylinder that is filled before the driver enters the pits. Get rid of flow restrictions, but homologate the pods to 25 kilos or something. That way can get the best racing tyres possible, but still force 3 stop races to refuel.


I think it would help a lot of the current issues in F1.

Well fully electric series aren't faster than thier combustion counterparts.

Yet.

That will change and if you refuse to watch and stick with the gas burners you'll be watching the slower series with less talented drivers.

It's inevitable.

SR71 wrote:

Zynerji wrote:Not a fan of full electric "Motorsports"...

I would like to see refuelling come back a hot swappable fuel pods. Make them a twist-lock, drop in cylinder that is filled before the driver enters the pits. Get rid of flow restrictions, but homologate the pods to 25 kilos or something. That way can get the best racing tyres possible, but still force 3 stop races to refuel.


I think it would help a lot of the current issues in F1.

Well fully electric series aren't faster than thier combustion counterparts.

Yet.

That will change and if you refuse to watch and stick with the gas burners you'll be watching the slower series with less talented drivers.

It's inevitable.

Until torque needs outstrip horse power needs, gas burners will reign supreme I think.

Zynerji wrote:

SR71 wrote:

Zynerji wrote:Not a fan of full electric "Motorsports"...

I would like to see refuelling come back a hot swappable fuel pods. Make them a twist-lock, drop in cylinder that is filled before the driver enters the pits. Get rid of flow restrictions, but homologate the pods to 25 kilos or something. That way can get the best racing tyres possible, but still force 3 stop races to refuel.


I think it would help a lot of the current issues in F1.

Well fully electric series aren't faster than thier combustion counterparts.

Yet.

That will change and if you refuse to watch and stick with the gas burners you'll be watching the slower series with less talented drivers.

It's inevitable.

Until torque needs outstrip horse power needs, gas burners will reign supreme I think.

Yes for a limited time (under 10 years) gas burners will be more interesting....