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dans79 wrote: If memory serves Mercedes, has a lot more experience with turbo technology than the other manufactures.

Mercedes?
Turbo?
What experience?
- Road cars? (almost exclusively Compressors for Petrol Engines)
- Race cars? Which series uses Turbos?

Seriously: The limiting factor will be the available amount of fuel.
Only Efficiency will buy you usable HP. And in that regard the difference between the manufaturers will be minuscule.
People have been designing IC engines since more than 100years. Technology can be considered absolutely matured.
The road car manufacturers spend many hundreds of millions to gain high single digit % efficiencies from one engine generation to the next (5-8years).
Does anyone really expect one manufacturer to find 20% compared to the others immediately and with a tiny fraction of that Budget ???!

I'm so fed up with that 100hp bullcrap. There is ONE article that mentions this 100hp advantage. And please read it. The guy writing it sounds very partial and no sense of professionalism.

And if we calculate that the new engines have an efficiency of 35% with a fuel energy density of 46 MJ/Kg which seems realistic. This would mean that these engines have 600 hp. So this would mean that with a 100 hp advantage Mercedes engine should have a little over 40% efficiency. This to me sounds seriously unrealistic.

henra wrote: - Road cars? (almost exclusively Compressors for Petrol Engines)

Yes, they have several turbo models/motors of varying performance levels.
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/engineering_creation2.php

let's not forget the Huaryra is powered by a turbo merc engine.

henra wrote: Seriously: The limiting factor will be the available amount of fuel.
Only Efficiency will buy you usable HP. And in that regard the difference between the manufaturers will be minuscule.
People have been designing IC engines since more than 100years.

Fuel is only part of the challenge for next year. I think getting the power down cleanly will be the most important thing next year. Turbos are going to produce a lot more low end torque than previous generations. Add to that the loss of the beam wing, and the loss of exhaust blowing and you have a recipe for tire eating machines. It won't matter how efficient your engine is, if you have to stop for tires every 5 laps.

As a merc fan the only thing that even remotely has me worried is the rumor that RBR has figured out how to use kers recover as a sudo traction control system.

According to Italian sources, Mercedes HPP teamed up with IHI Charging Systems International (subsidiary of the Ishikawajima-Harima Heavy Industries) for the development of the turbocharger for 2014 power units. Both companies have some common history, as results of their partnership can be seen over the broad range of Mercedes road vehicles. Although, their products are also used by other major car manufacturers and even in high performance cars (e.g. Nissan GT-R, Ferrari F40).

IHI wrote:IHI has produced more than 36 million turbochargers for automobiles, with a scope ranging from compact cars to large buses and trucks.

ICSI is an established provider of charging systems in the European turbocharger segment. Millions of our systems are successfully used by almost all European automotive manufacturers: VW, Audi, Daimler, Toyota, Ferrari and others rely on our innovative solutions.

Article linked above mentions that "Mercedes decided to have full control over the entire project and does not want to outsource some aspects of the turbo-compound."

Anyone else just want to fall asleep and wake up January and know the situation?

Holm86 wrote:I'm so fed up with that 100hp bullcrap. There is ONE article that mentions this 100hp advantage. And please read it. The guy writing it sounds very partial and no sense of professionalism.

And if we calculate that the new engines have an efficiency of 35% with a fuel energy density of 46 MJ/Kg which seems realistic. This would mean that these engines have 600 hp. So this would mean that with a 100 hp advantage Mercedes engine should have a little over 40% efficiency. This to me sounds seriously unrealistic.

So where do you think you're posting, on F1Technical?

What's that...we are?

Don't forget this a yin yang thread.

While other forums fantasise about drivers winning races from the back of the grid worthy of “Boys Own” comic strip, here at F1t the fantasies are about undiscovered horses and injector tolerances. That conjures the rather apt imagery of unicorns.

I know this is the Yin Yang thread. But this 100hp myth is haunting this entire forum. Not just this thread.

Praise the Lord richard, can we go back to Torque being Energy now?

Holm86 wrote:I know this is the Yin Yang thread. But this 100hp myth is haunting this entire forum. Not just this thread.

When I joined there was a technical moderator, some might find it becoming for a technical forum, but that was a loong time ago.

Holm86 wrote:I'm so fed up with that 100hp bullcrap. There is ONE article that mentions this 100hp advantage. And please read it. The guy writing it sounds very partial and no sense of professionalism.

And if we calculate that the new engines have an efficiency of 35% with a fuel energy density of 46 MJ/Kg which seems realistic. This would mean that these engines have 600 hp. So this would mean that with a 100 hp advantage Mercedes engine should have a little over 40% efficiency. This to me sounds seriously unrealistic.

In fairness, I doubt anyone truly believes the 100bhp claims. With that said, the fact that Antony Davidson is like a kid in a candy shop and unable to contain his excitement when discussing the 2014 Merc engine implies they believe they have got a monster on their hands. Of course it's entirely possible that whilst Merc have a monster, Renault have Godzilla.

Jonnycraig wrote: In fairness, I doubt anyone truly believes the 100bhp claims. With that said, the fact that Antony Davidson is like a kid in a candy shop and unable to contain his excitement when discussing the 2014 Merc engine implies they believe they have got a monster on their hands. Of course it's entirely possible that whilst Merc have a monster, Renault have Godzilla.

Does anyone really fear Renault power though? As A Merc fan, I'm more worried about Newey finding an aero silver bullet, or Ferrari producing a beast.

dans79 wrote: ...
Does anyone really fear Renault power though?

There are stories about Renault having kept their turbo-technology from the 80s intact and might be as much as 150 Hp ahead.

Think about it.

xpensive wrote:

dans79 wrote: ...
Does anyone really fear Renault power though?

There are stories about Renault having kept their turbo-technology from the 80s intact and might be as much as 150 Hp ahead.

Think about it.

lol

I think it's very very unlikely that almost 30 year old technology would be far superior to modern technology.

xpensive wrote:

dans79 wrote: ...
Does anyone really fear Renault power though?

There are stories about Renault having kept their turbo-technology from the 80s intact and might be as much as 150 Hp ahead.

Think about it.

I like your humor But seriously please keep in mind that people in here will buy anything. Just look at the post right above.