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Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 30 Apr 2016, 17:59
by Serbian4ever
drunkf1fan wrote:Serbian4ever wrote:drunkf1fan wrote:
Speed trap is not a good indicator of overall performance. You can hit the speed trap reading 10kph faster but average 15kph slower over a whole straight. How fast an engine is at a single point on the track is somewhat irrelevant to how fast the engine is over the lap as a whole.
However saying that, speed trap in China qualifying Alonso 329.5, Ricciardo 329.5, Mag/Palmer 328, button 325. Not sure that is proof that Honda is clearly better either.
Realistically with these engines anyone can burst use all their ERS power down one straight for a great speed trap result but then be slower on the lap overall with lacking ers power. Absolute top speed isn't the key to these engines, highest sustainable speed is the key to a fast car.
Almost same and still big gap to Red Bull. Thats point
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 30 Apr 2016, 19:26
by haza
Just been reading the 2017 engine rules and I was thinking wouldn't a supercharged v6 be better for sound as they don't use exhaust gases
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 30 Apr 2016, 19:56
by Tauri_J
supercharger is a waste of energy...huge waste
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 May 2016, 01:59
by gruntguru
. . and a huge waste of energy = a huge power disadvantage.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 May 2016, 02:37
by Pierce89
Cannonballer wrote:GoranF1 wrote:Sasha wrote:Late last year a member of HRD asked his uncle(was on Gato engine team in 80's) to take a look at the Honda PU and write a review on it.After the Senior Engineers and Arias read his report,they asked him to come back to work on the PU.There are three other consultants on his team. Mclaren had nothing to do with this,europress just talking from their ass.
Because the 2016 PU was already design by the time they got there and the very little time before the season started,their ideas are not in todays PU.
And the token system is killing them this year.14 tokens is not enough for what is needed to be done.(secondary injection,bigger compressor and better ERS cooling)
The only thing Honda did wrong with the PU was taking the wrong path of size zero.(it cost them a year because of overheating problems.....still have some problems today and put a cap on performance with the compressor in the V)
I know who the uncle is....
I really miss his contributions to the thread/site.
Come on guys, even if Wazari was the uncle, he wouldn't want this story propagated.
He also wouldn't have liked that this story does a total disservice to the young engineers on the project(like his nephew).
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 May 2016, 09:27
by GoranF1
Latey there was lots of contradictory in his claims, compared to claims of Hasegawa and Boulier....i am doubting his legitimacy now.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 May 2016, 09:48
by NL_Fer
I really doubt if the old engineers were that much better, except for a few bright minds.
Let's be honest, the 80s was about building a powerfull engine, which would not blow up during the race. There was no limit on boost pressure, fuel usage, materials, no hybrid system, etc...
Moderne f1 engines have so much more complicating factors, it is a totally different than in the 80s.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 May 2016, 09:50
by Jef Patat
I've always doubted him. But the god like status he got made it hard to hear critical notes
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 May 2016, 16:08
by amho
Does anyone knows about fuel efficiency of engines this year? last year we could see some data during TV broadcasting where generally Renault was burning more fuel than Ferrari and Mercedes, but this year nothing has been shown.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 May 2016, 16:10
by Sayeman
Fuel Limit has been increased to 105kg from next year. Good news for Honda i guess
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 May 2016, 19:22
by OviJohn
amho wrote:Does anyone knows about fuel efficiency of engines this year? last year we could see some data during TV broadcasting where generally Renault was burning more fuel than Ferrari and Mercedes, but this year nothing has been shown.
Im missing this information as well; specially for a race like todays for Hondas PU.
It seesm like they were very concern with the fuel consumption during the race, and only until Alonso did a couple of late "flying laps" it became obvious to me.
Then I read the team report and it becomes clear: The PU is too damn thirsty in its current spec.
Alonso quotes:
“In fact, the car felt good all race – obviously, we were saving fuel at some points of the afternoon, but, on one lap, I just decided to go for it – to wake myself up a little bit! – and the lap-time showed the potential is there."
Boullier quotes:
“That said, he drove a somewhat lonely race, with one eye very much on his fuel-meter. The gap ahead to fourth-placed Valtteri Bottas tells the story of how conservatively he drove his race – and the handful of very quick, unrestrained, laps that he punched in in the closing laps show the potential of what could have been achieved had he been able to run at full pace throughout."
Hasegawa:
“We knew that our longer stints were good here, but it was a job well done for our team and drivers to manage our one-stop strategy and fuel-saving during the race, which led to today’s results."
Can´t wait to see how can Honda improve the current spec with the remaining tokens [-o<
Full team report here:
http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/2016/ru ... sianGP2016
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 May 2016, 19:33
by diffuser
Yeah, it was apparent to me last race as well. Their problems aren't tire usage as much as fuel saving. They're probably always carrying more fuel than everyone else which isn't helping their tire usage. The chassis has alot more pace in it than the fuel will allow.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 May 2016, 20:02
by godlameroso
They do have a large change of pace towards the end of the race.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 May 2016, 20:26
by amho
Serbian4ever wrote:drunkf1fan wrote:Serbian4ever wrote:
Speed trap is not a good indicator of overall performance. You can hit the speed trap reading 10kph faster but average 15kph slower over a whole straight. How fast an engine is at a single point on the track is somewhat irrelevant to how fast the engine is over the lap as a whole.
However saying that, speed trap in China qualifying Alonso 329.5, Ricciardo 329.5, Mag/Palmer 328, button 325. Not sure that is proof that Honda is clearly better either.
Realistically with these engines anyone can burst use all their ERS power down one straight for a great speed trap result but then be slower on the lap overall with lacking ers power. Absolute top speed isn't the key to these engines, highest sustainable speed is the key to a fast car.
Almost same and still big gap to Red Bull. Thats point
yes it's true that top speed isn't a good indicator of overall engine performance but Mclaren's speed in sectors have been reasonable so far in all races compared to last year and others.
http://www.fia.com/file/41053/download?token=yNdZ8BHv
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 May 2016, 21:01
by Serbian4ever
Thats why i think Honda pu is better.