Page 26 of 78
Re: Flexible wings 2011
Posted: 31 Mar 2011, 23:33
by shelly
Hwy don't we separate threads between rules discussion and technical discussion of flexi wings?
Re: Flexible wings 2011
Posted: 31 Mar 2011, 23:35
by djos
segedunum wrote:tok-tokkie wrote:
This shows it so dramatically.
Apologies for re-posting the picture, but that shows absolutely nothing.
We went through animated GIFs like that last year at a dime a dozen when I was convinced there was some nose movement myself, but we came up with nothing conclusive because it's impossible to eliminate all the factors involved with a moving car. There are differences in shadows at various locations where pictures are taken and you can also see lower suspension movement in the picture as well.
The only conclusion I can draw is that the wing flexes to an extent, but not to the extent that a lot of people are thinking and not to an extent where it will fail scrutineering. The lowering of the wing and apparent lowering of the nose, I believe, is a result of the amount of rake that they're able to run the car at and the fact that their front suspension seems to display more movement than any other car, certainly the McLaren. That's what makes it so complex. It's not just a case of McLaren or anyone else somehow inventing a 'bendy' wing.
And not only that Seg, the Camera these pics are taken from can easily move around slightly making shots taken irrelevant.
Re: Flexible wings 2011
Posted: 01 Apr 2011, 00:01
by bot6
Seg, if photographic evidence is good enough for a court of law, why is it not good enough for you? Or for the FIA for that matter?
The rule is breached, and there is proof. Now the only thing that remains is to know what kind of proof would be deemed admissible by the FIA. And that's (unfortunately) up to them.
Re: Flexible wings 2011
Posted: 01 Apr 2011, 01:22
by flynfrog
what rule is breached? BY how much? Do the other teams pass? All of these cars have flex in every part of the car. What do you define as the max allowed? Prove Red Bull is going past this. You cant.
In the US we have had dog scent lineups hold up in court (I'm not even joking). Courts are not really based in science its what you can convince a jury of.
Re: Flexible wings 2011
Posted: 01 Apr 2011, 02:13
by jamsbong
Thats really clever and although Mclaren are protesting, I prefer other teams to get into it.
Re: Flexible wings 2011
Posted: 01 Apr 2011, 02:23
by djos
bot6 wrote:Seg, if photographic evidence is good enough for a court of law, why is it not good enough for you? Or for the FIA for that matter?
The rule is breached, and there is proof. Now the only thing that remains is to know what kind of proof would be deemed admissible by the FIA. And that's (unfortunately) up to them.
The fact is that the photographic evidence posted here isnt good enuf for a court of law and is so flawed any decent lawyer could tear it's "validity" to shreds!
Re: Flexible wings 2011
Posted: 01 Apr 2011, 02:33
by Formula None
shelly wrote:Hwy don't we separate threads between rules discussion and technical discussion of flexi wings?
Agree. I'm more interested in how it works than whether or not its legal.
bot6, JET & others, all due respect, the entire car is a "device or construction that is designed to bridge the gap between the sprung part of the car and the ground is prohibited under all circumstances." That's what the suspension, third springs & rake do. Gets its sprung self closer to the ground.
Also, everyone says skirts are illegal but I still see them on the grid before every race. Explain THAT.
Re: Flexible wings 2011
Posted: 01 Apr 2011, 05:46
by Lindz
Formula None wrote:
Also, everyone says skirts are illegal but I still see them on the grid before every race. Explain THAT.
LOL'd. Haha, brilliant.
I'd also like to keep legality posts to one thread and technical posts to this thread.
Re: Flexible wings 2011
Posted: 01 Apr 2011, 06:18
by kebab
I think most of the teams know that RBR's wings flex like hell and they also know that the RBR's nose flex too...but why can't/don't they do it themself since FIA say it's legal???
Wasn't last year Ferrari wings flex too? They donst seem to flex at Albert Park at all!
Re: Flexible wings 2011
Posted: 01 Apr 2011, 07:08
by Formula None
ZOMG LOOK:
Just kidding, last year's car. 
Re: Flexible wings 2011
Posted: 01 Apr 2011, 07:21
by djos
Formula None wrote:ZOMG LOOK:
Just kidding, last year's car.
Interesting that you show this pic cause im sure i've seen a similar pic of the RB7 that shows the same almost horizontal crease line thru nose that is imo where the flexing happens. =D>
That crease is definitely not there when the car is stationary!
Re: Flexible wings 2011
Posted: 01 Apr 2011, 07:30
by Formula None
You mean this crease? (From stationary photo)
Mercedes has a similar detail:
Re: Flexible wings 2011
Posted: 01 Apr 2011, 09:19
by vall
segedunum wrote:JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:Do you deny then that wings are flexing, beyond the permissable?
Prove that they're flexing beyond 2cm with your keenly trained eye then. Unless you can measure what you can see you're going nowhere. You can't switch the tables round so that you come from a default position of being right. Any kind of engineering just doesn't work that way I'm afraid.
I am sure they can put sensors at the two ends of the FW, the nose and a few other places to measure on-track if the nose and FW is flexing. That will put the whole issue at rest.
Re: Flexible wings 2011
Posted: 01 Apr 2011, 09:29
by vall
for those who say it is clever engineering, yes it is, but some bank robbers are clever too. This does not make it legal. If you gona admire RB for engineering a flexy wing, then you should also admit that they are trying to brake the rule and cheat, no?
Re: Flexible wings 2011
Posted: 01 Apr 2011, 09:36
by Formula None
vall wrote:or those who say it is clever engineering, yes it is, but some bank robbers are clever too.
The cleverest bank robbers actually work for the banks.
Also, every team works to pass the tests, not follow the book of rules verbatim.