F1technical.net

Based on a sustained mode of delivering 80kW and a lap length of 90s (full throttle of 60%) then I get about 6MJ. That could be way off though I'm not sure how much they deliver in the sustained mode, even though with some calculations it can be done. Maybe I'll give them a go later today

Then this data to max ERS in each circuit, is wrong?.

Austria is an extremely short track with high full throttle percentage, so the MGU-K harvesting is quite low. I really could be way off the mark with those numbers. Do they have the same data sheet for Barcelona?

Those numbers suggest around 40kW from the MGU-H in sustain mode if, as is suggested there is 70% WOT. That's less than I have seen in other MM figures for other tracks whic have suggested 50 kW.

If 50 kW is right it would suggest 56% WOT.

Out of interest I put a stopwatch on last year's Barcelona and Spa pole laps. I got 41 and 61% WOT respectively. I think many of the WOT figures people are still using come from the V8 days.

henry wrote:Those numbers suggest around 40kW from the MGU-H in sustain mode if, as is suggested there is 70% WOT. That's less than I have seen in other MM figures for other tracks whic have suggested 50 kW.

If 50 kW is right it would suggest 56% WOT.


Out of interest I put a stopwatch on last year's Barcelona and Spa pole laps. I got 41 and 61% WOT respectively. I think many of the WOT figures people are still using come from the V8 days.

41% of 90s at Barcelona is 36,9s. It would be interesting to see how much energy the MGU-K can recover on a lap there to see the importance of the MGU-H and how much of full throttle will be in sustained mode.

SameSame wrote:

henry wrote:Those numbers suggest around 40kW from the MGU-H in sustain mode if, as is suggested there is 70% WOT. That's less than I have seen in other MM figures for other tracks whic have suggested 50 kW.

If 50 kW is right it would suggest 56% WOT.


Out of interest I put a stopwatch on last year's Barcelona and Spa pole laps. I got 41 and 61% WOT respectively. I think many of the WOT figures people are still using come from the V8 days.

41% of 90s at Barcelona is 36,9s. It would be interesting to see how much energy the MGU-K can recover on a lap there to see the importance of the MGU-H and how much of full throttle will be in sustained mode.

I got braking at about 16 seconds (18%). At 100% recovery efficiency that's 1.92 MJ. I deduce from Magnetti Marelli figures that they assume around 45% recovery efficiency. So less than 1 MJ recovered.

You need 4.4 MJ 37 seconds at 120 kW. So with 1 from braking you can run a qualy lap at WOT permanently and have some left over to open the wastegate at the beginning of straights.

In the race the MGU-H would need to make around 90 kW to have max MGU-K assistance available for the lap. That is of course ignoring the ability to charge the ES and use self sustain at part throttle. So maybe 60 or so kW needed for a race lap at full deployment. Of course the fuel use would then come in to it.

henry wrote:
I got braking at about 16 seconds (18%). At 100% recovery efficiency that's 1.92 MJ. I deduce from Magnetti Marelli figures that they assume around 45% recovery efficiency. So less than 1 MJ recovered.

You need 4.4 MJ 37 seconds at 120 kW. So with 1 from braking you can run a qualy lap at WOT permanently and have some left over to open the wastegate at the beginning of straights.

In the race the MGU-H would need to make around 90 kW to have max MGU-K assistance available for the lap. That is of course ignoring the ability to charge the ES and use self sustain at part throttle. So maybe 60 or so kW needed for a race lap at full deployment. Of course the fuel use would then come in to it.

That efficiency looks so low. I did some quick hand calculations and even braking 3g at 150km/h they should be able to harvest more than 120kW. Is it that you can have max 120kW from harvested from the K or is it max transfer of 120kW between K and ES? Because then you could harvest more and still send 120kW to the ES even with inefficiency. It's interesting to see based on your numbers (even if they could harvest 100% from the K) how important the H is.

That is from Spain. I really dont knwo if this figures are from 2015 or 2016

henry wrote:I got braking at about 16 seconds (18%). At 100% recovery efficiency that's 1.92 MJ. I deduce from Magnetti Marelli figures that they assume around 45% recovery efficiency. So less than 1 MJ recovered.

imo this is misunderstanding MM
45% efficiency of a work>electrical energy>work process implies 55% loss as heat, that's a conspicuous amount of heat & cooling
at very high speed/DF the 120 kW recovery limit uses only a fraction of the grip (and potential recovery) allowed by the high tyre contact load
at some lower speed the 120 kw recovery uses all the grip of the tyre as the tyre contact load is much lower

people should be looking at the thread more related to this topic - it has been well covered there

very contradictings statements, do you believe what he said in autopsort interview or this named guy in twitter. make your guess, anyway next year fia will test these engine and the power index will be given, so everyone can then start the blame game again.,

Hello everyone.
I found something and wanted to share it, a new technology from Honda, that could help reduce consumption.







http://www.motor.es/noticias/honda-moto ... 27671.html
http://habersefi.com/haber/honda-farkli ... -6256.html

HPD wrote:Hello everyone.
I found something and wanted to share it, a new technology from Honda, that could help reduce consumption.

http://static.motor.es/fotos-noticias/2 ... 7671_1.jpg

http://static.motor.es/fotos-noticias/2 ... 7671_2.jpg

http://habersefi.com/r/honda-farkli-boy ... iyor-2.jpg

http://www.motor.es/noticias/honda-moto ... 27671.html
http://habersefi.com/haber/honda-farkli ... -6256.html

So, variable stroke? Cool but very illegal for the F1 project.

edit: http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2016 ... nders.html
Seems to be done in several discrete steps.

But yeah, not F1 engine related.

HPD wrote:Hello everyone.
I found something and wanted to share it, a new technology from Honda, that could help reduce consumption.

http://static.motor.es/fotos-noticias/2 ... 7671_1.jpg

http://static.motor.es/fotos-noticias/2 ... 7671_2.jpg

http://habersefi.com/r/honda-farkli-boy ... iyor-2.jpg

http://www.motor.es/noticias/honda-moto ... 27671.html
http://habersefi.com/haber/honda-farkli ... -6256.html

The article does not speak of F1 engine.

Tommy Cookers wrote:

henry wrote:I got braking at about 16 seconds (18%). At 100% recovery efficiency that's 1.92 MJ. I deduce from Magnetti Marelli figures that they assume around 45% recovery efficiency. So less than 1 MJ recovered.

imo this is misunderstanding MM
45% efficiency of a work>electrical energy>work process implies 55% loss as heat, that's a conspicuous amount of heat & cooling
at very high speed/DF the 120 kW recovery limit uses only a fraction of the grip (and potential recovery) allowed by the high tyre contact load
at some lower speed the 120 kw recovery uses all the grip of the tyre as the tyre contact load is much lower

people should be looking at the thread more related to this topic - it has been well covered there

With respect I don't think I'm misunderstanding MM i think you are disputing their numbers.

17.1 seconds braking at 120 kW is 2.05 MJ. They claim 840 kJ recovery. That's 41% of the potential. I called that efficiency. Perhaps that's a poor word to use. At other circuits the value has been around 45%.

I don't know how MM arrive at these numbers but I make the assumption they are better informed than I.

Perhaps you could point me at the thread in which this has been covered.