F1technical.net

f1motta wrote:Here is quite nice piece about new engines. A lot of knowledge gathered in a sinlge article.

Original [Polish] - http://www.f1talks.pl/2013/08/20/co-juz ... napedowych
Google translation [English] - http://bit.ly/19vbbok

I just skimmed it. But isn't it the same as this episode of the Racers Edge? :
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4o0TNF1_vA[/youtube]

Reca wrote:....Integral of red dotted => 2.05MJ.

I picked these two tracks because in my experience from having done similar calculations in the past, Abu Dhabi is one of the best tracks for energy recovery in braking, while Monza is one of worst, so the above can be IMO a good indication of the two extremes.

Which means that in almost all tracks recovery 2MJ from braking, lap after lap, will be quite challenging, in not few just impossible.

Thanks Reca, brilliant post. I knew I should not even bother to make crude estimates in the little spare time I have, but I knew off the cuff that the 120 kW is an asinine limitation, which will seriously damage the amount of recovery they can do unless a more positive interpretation of the power flow is allowed to apply. Why would anybody conceive the ide to limit the amount of braking power artificially on top of limiting the amount of energy and crippling the whole thing? You have to be a perverted aerodynamics freak to get these kind of ideas. Any self respecting F1 engineer would try to use as much power from regeneration as he can. It is difficult enough without interfering rules.

I expect higher top speeds, and with the new minum weight limit, we need to consider that the braking energy should be higher as well. Wether it reaches or suparsses 2MJ i haven't worked it out.
2MJ per lap may be attainable. Though it's not really relevant if it's not possible to attain the limit.

I expect higher top speeds

I don't see how if the rearend ratio has to be fixxed and to suit everything from Monaco to Spa

strad wrote:

I expect higher top speeds

I don't see how if the rearend ratio has to be fixxed and to suit everything from Monaco to Spa

Lower drag and similar top end power. They will be geared to suit that.

They should be slower in corners and faster on straights. At east initially.

Monaco may have gears 1-6 being used, Spa 2-7, Monza 2-8 or 3-8.

With the wider power band that these cars will have, they may actually need fewer gear changes, though they have more ratios fom which to chose.

wuzak wrote:Monaco may have gears 1-6 being used, Spa 2-7, Monza 2-8 or 3-8.

Pretty sure every track is going to need 1st gear...

Tim.Wright wrote:

wuzak wrote:Monaco may have gears 1-6 being used, Spa 2-7, Monza 2-8 or 3-8.

Pretty sure every track is going to need 1st gear...

Only for the start and pit stops.

wuzak wrote:

Tim.Wright wrote:

wuzak wrote:Monaco may have gears 1-6 being used, Spa 2-7, Monza 2-8 or 3-8.

Pretty sure every track is going to need 1st gear...

Only for the start and pit stops.

yes exactly, and if you use 1st, then you will also need to go through 2nd and 3rd on every track too.

Tim.Wright wrote:

wuzak wrote:

Tim.Wright wrote: Pretty sure every track is going to need 1st gear...

Only for the start and pit stops.

yes exactly, and if you use 1st, then you will also need to go through 2nd and 3rd on every track too.

You know what he means. Of course he means during a lap.

And yes i agree and have said all the time that i believe tracks such as Monaco will use only up to sixth gear. Thats why ive been saying that the ratios will be some sort of compromise.

Holm86 wrote:You know what he means. Of course he means during a lap...

I still can't see this. You need the lower gears to be nicely spaced to give a decent acceleration performance. If you launch from the grid and you need to change up through the following ratios:
1st - (Take off)
2nd - (Spa 1st)
3rd - (Monaco 1st)
4th - (2nd...)

You are not going to have a very fast launch.

Tim.Wright wrote:

Holm86 wrote:You know what he means. Of course he means during a lap...

I still can't see this. You need the lower gears to be nicely spaced to give a decent acceleration performance. If you launch from the grid and you need to change up through the following ratios:
1st - (Take off)
2nd - (Spa 1st)
3rd - (Monaco 1st)
4th - (2nd...)

You are not going to have a very fast launch.

You have lost me here. Why would 3'rd be 1'st at Monaco??

I got it backwards, should be

1st - (Take off - Monaco 1st)
2nd - (Spa 1st)
3rd - (Monza 1st)
4th - (2nd...)

Point is, if you need to you need to go through this sequence every time you take off, your acceleration won't be great.

I wonder then, if the teams will throw away the current sequential design and make something to allow them to skip ratios.

Tim.Wright wrote:I got it backwards, should be

1st - (Take off - Monaco 1st)
2nd - (Spa 1st)
3rd - (Monza 1st)
4th - (2nd...)

Point is, if you need to you need to go through this sequence every time you take off, your acceleration won't be great.

I wonder then, if the teams will throw away the current sequential design and make something to allow them to skip ratios.

You are still misunderstanding the point. He is not saying that they will take off in second gear in spa etc. They will take of in 1'st gear at every track. But in monaco where the top speed inst that high they will just not get into 6'th or 7'th gear.

What he means about 2-7 or 3-8 is of course during a lap. Som tracks have corners where you dont need to shift all the way down to 1'st. So during a lap only gear 2-7 is used etc. Of course they will use 1'st gear to take off on every track.

Holm86 wrote:You are still misunderstanding the point. He is not saying that they will take off in second gear in spa etc. They will take of in 1'st gear at every track. But in monaco where the top speed inst that high they will just not get into 6'th or 7'th gear.

What he means about 2-7 or 3-8 is of course during a lap. Som tracks have corners where you dont need to shift all the way down to 1'st. So during a lap only gear 2-7 is used etc. Of course they will use 1'st gear to take off on every track.

Exactly as you say.

There are some tracks now that don't required 1st gear on a racing lap.

I'm talking specifically about take off when you go through the gears. What I'm saying is that the difference in ratio between 2-3-4 are going to be tuned for the best acceleration if you decide to tune one for the minimum lap gear of spa, one for monza etc...

My opinion is that, unless they change the gearbox designs, they will still be using all of the lower gears (except 1st) during a complete lap.