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Tim.Wright wrote:

Tommy Cookers wrote:Paul Frere (GP & Le Mans winner, MEng graduate, journalist) complained about this in print, eg the best-seller Peugeot 205 GTi

I admit, I have been bitten by lift off oversteer in that very car.

Point remains though, a wing would have done precisely F.A. to help the situation. Yes its true there was a lot of development to fix this trait, but it was all suspension and tyre related.

I'm sorry if I was mis-understood but that was my point..poorly made I guess..The wing isn't important to what I was saying, just the..

Yes its true there was a lot of development to fix this trait, but it was all suspension and tyre related

..that was my point.
Thanks Tim

marcush. wrote:This is when you NEED a car which is a bit understeering for high speed confidence ..it will certainly make the car stable in quick corners.

this is a Chevy Cruze not some F1 car...

What will happen is you will get a higher fuel economy, a car that ploughs straight ahead at very high speeds and a car that looks stupid.

If he tries to take corners at 200kph he´s better off without the rear wing guaranteed.

i have a 52 inch wing on my 95 monte z34 fwd it does me wonders cornering at any speed is nice and smooth did i mention its adjustable so i dont have to have all th down force on my rear end plus i have a 70 lb sub box in my trunk but if u want to put a wing on your car thats upto u but jus like they said u will have to drill and paint and all that fun jazz but i love my wing oh and u will stick out like a sore thumb not that i cared ill post pictures later on of my car remember the reason people cusomize their rides is to make them their own

Mr.Monte86 wrote:i have a 52 inch wing on my 95 monte z34 fwd it does me wonders cornering at any speed is nice and smooth did i mention its adjustable so i dont have to have all th down force on my rear end plus i have a 70 lb sub box in my trunk but if u want to put a wing on your car thats upto u but jus like they said u will have to drill and paint and all that fun jazz but i love my wing oh and u will stick out like a sore thumb not that i cared ill post pictures later on of my car remember the reason people cusomize their rides is to make them their own

Jersey Tom wrote:

Tommy Cookers wrote:not so long ago (certainly in Europe) there were many small, high performance 'hot hatches' that had a lot of rear roll stiffness to help them put their power down in corners and reduce steering 'fight' (manual of course)

That would be my last point... this was really a thing though? On consumer cars? Seems a bit dangerous! Can't imagine an emergency lane change like that.

Oh yes, this was a thing. For a while Euro hot hatches had enough rear roll stiffness to lift the IR tire, in order to reduce understeer. Early gti's could get VERY lively(my dad shipped one home after he was stationed in Augsburg, Bavaria in the mid 90's. His was an '87 and understeer happened only in first gear at full throttle. I swear it was a fwd with power on oversteer.)

Even some recent Fiestas have been set up as such. Last time I was in England my old high school buddy had a fairly new Fiesta r500 that WOULD NOT understeer.

if you wanted more rear end grip with less tradeoff drag then would a rear diffuser be the way to go? ive seen a lot of modern hatchbacks with this feature now although some are just for looks. Either way a set of tyres could be a better way to spend money on rear grip

neilbah wrote:if you wanted more rear end grip with less tradeoff drag then would a rear diffuser be the way to go? ive seen a lot of modern hatchbacks with this feature now although some are just for looks. Either way a set of tyres could be a better way to spend money on rear grip

most street cars are not close enough to the ground to get much use from under body. Best money per grip unit buy slicks.

Pierce89 wrote:

Jersey Tom wrote:

Tommy Cookers wrote:not so long ago (certainly in Europe) there were many small, high performance 'hot hatches' that had a lot of rear roll stiffness to help them put their power down in corners and reduce steering 'fight' (manual of course)

That would be my last point... this was really a thing though? On consumer cars? Seems a bit dangerous! Can't imagine an emergency lane change like that.

Oh yes, this was a thing. For a while Euro hot hatches had enough rear roll stiffness to lift the IR tire, in order to reduce understeer. Early gti's could get VERY lively(my dad shipped one home after he was stationed in Augsburg, Bavaria in the mid 90's. His was an '87 and understeer happened only in first gear at full throttle. I swear it was a fwd with power on oversteer.)

Even some recent Fiestas have been set up as such. Last time I was in England my old high school buddy had a fairly new Fiesta r500 that WOULD NOT understeer.

Unless that car has been in the hands of some tuning kiddies it will be understeering in both the linear and limit ranges.

There are very few hard and fast rules in vehicle dynamics but I'm pretty confident in saying that every current/recent car coming out of the big OEMs will be understeering without exception. This is done for safety reasons.