Based on Q1 earnings Tesla runs at 15% operating loss vs a 15% gross margin profit for Porsche.
So your $120k car should really cost $150k if Tesla could find enough people with deep pockets to fill their factories. Tesla is giving consumers a deal at the expense of investors.
Why are you using q1 when we're in q3 now and q2 data has been available for a couple of months already?
They've achieved positive cash flow. That's the only thing that matters at the moment as it means they are making money - their bank account gets larger with every week/month. The gaap loss takes into account other factors like asset deprecation which don't really mean that much. Some factory equipment might end up having a book value much lower than its actual value.
In a few short years Tesla has transitioned from being a small manufacturer to producing almost 2x the number of cars that Porsche produces. They also have the largest charging network out of all manufacturers by a huge factor.
I'm calling them a startup because they're still maturing as a business. Auto industry is much slower than the software industry, where a company can reach its peak very quickly - hence why tech giants got caught out by small, nimble startups.
Re: Porsche Taycan
Posted: 18 Sep 2019, 08:44
by P.S.
First rumors the "Model S P100D+" has laped the Nordschleife in 7:23. Already a whopper 19 seconds quicker than the Taycan Turbo S.
According to Mr. Musks twittering something they named "Plaid" with three engines is in it and that will be also the or a powertrain for the Roadster2... and will be also available for Model S and X.... But not in 3 or Y
Re: Porsche Taycan
Posted: 18 Sep 2019, 13:03
by FW17
Swatch seems to do everything better with the exception of leather quality
Re: Porsche Taycan
Posted: 18 Sep 2019, 13:21
by santos
I wonder how many buyers will decide witch car to buy based on lap times at a track that they won't never drive. And how many buyers will decide witch car to buy based on the quality of the product.
I wonder how many buyers will decide witch car to buy based on lap times at a track that they won't never drive. And how many buyers will decide witch car to buy based on the quality of the product.
Thankfully you can buy a product based on your approach .
ps. I would prefer petrol-engined hypercar
Re: Porsche Taycan
Posted: 18 Sep 2019, 14:41
by digitalrurouni
I honestly did not believe the Tesla could out Porsche a Porsche. But color me impressed. I was actually considering an entry level Taycan to add to my garage but no more. I am gonna go cheap and get the Model 3 Performance. So yeah I am one of those kinds of people. Especially since the Performance comes with Track Mode. You bet I am gonna track it once at least! Though I have to see if charging infrastructure is there or not at the track I intend to go to.
I honestly did not believe the Tesla could out Porsche a Porsche. But color me impressed. I was actually considering an entry level Taycan to add to my garage but no more. I am gonna go cheap and get the Model 3 Performance. So yeah I am one of those kinds of people. Especially since the Performance comes with Track Mode. You bet I am gonna track it once at least! Though I have to see if charging infrastructure is there or not at the track I intend to go to.
I honestly did not believe the Tesla could out Porsche a Porsche. But color me impressed. I was actually considering an entry level Taycan to add to my garage but no more. I am gonna go cheap and get the Model 3 Performance. So yeah I am one of those kinds of people. Especially since the Performance comes with Track Mode. You bet I am gonna track it once at least! Though I have to see if charging infrastructure is there or not at the track I intend to go to.
First rumors the "Model S P100D+" has laped the Nordschleife in 7:23. Already a whopper 19 seconds quicker than the Taycan Turbo S.
According to Mr. Musks twittering something they named "Plaid" with three engines is in it and that will be also the or a powertrain for the Roadster2... and will be also available for Model S and X.... But not in 3 or Y
Except turns out the time isn't comparable because they used a shorter version of the track...and significantly faster tyres.
Re: Porsche Taycan
Posted: 19 Sep 2019, 17:01
by P.S.
Some more informations about the shorter Track?
But of course it even seems the tires are not street legal and also a huge tinker rear spoiler sticking out way behind the rear bumper (that won´t get a license plate) and the brakes are custom made, not mentioning the drive train is a prototyp in developement. And this are only obvious modifications.
But I am looking forward to what Tesla will release in their press kit anyway.
... speed restriction for exit/entry on the main straight...
Forgot about it. Thanks
Some technical thoughts and speculation about the Taycan. And of course it will be in comparison to Tesla as they are the benchmark:
1. The fast charging. I know its not 350 and "only" 270 kw so far, but some base is set.
To squeese that much power through a CCS-plug, an 800 volt system seems nessesary.
We are all familiar with electric power = amps * volts. And amps need wire cross section, not voltage. So the high voltage helps.
But also the battery has to perform to realise that fast charging.
The batteries in a Tesla Model S are (due to my information) Panasonic NCR18650GA, in the Model 3 NCR20700GA (round cells). And those have a very high energie density with about 250 Wh/kg.
Its already quite a challange to fully charge them under an houre without damaging and its about battery thermal managment (more worm = more ampere) where Tesla has obviously a leading position.
To charge a battery even quicker, it is possible to shave something off the energy density and get power desity in exchange (low internal resistance). I guess Porsche has decided to go this way with pouch batteries from LG.
I personaly think this is a very good decision because fast charging to me is more appealing than the last bit of max range. And because the battery of the Porsch has also about 90 kWh, we may can assume the battery has more weight to get the extra power which is rather bad for a sporty car.
2. The Porsche can recuperate with up to 260-270 kW and a deceleration of 0.39 G. And they do it with a proper brake pedal. So the driver don´t has to think about braking a bit, releasing the accelerator pedal and more braking with the hydraulic pedal.
It will provide some extra range especially in stop go traffic and hilly landscapes. It also reduces brake dust, which somehow makes it a bit more environmental friendly.
Motor or rather generator power and good thermal management of those is needed and again the battery has to match with a decent amount of power desity. I assume those super energy density Tesla battery packs couldn´t do it as good as the battery Porsche has gone for.
So far my smattering. And again can someone please explane why the Porsche should have such a high energy consumption? So curious about it.
Re: Porsche Taycan
Posted: 20 Sep 2019, 13:20
by bill shoe
Good article on how the Taycan has enough cooling/thermal performance for extended serious driving. In contrast the Tesla overheats after one lap of a short road course (if you turn on the special pre-cooling mode before you do the lap, if you just get in and drive then it won't even last one lap). If a gas-powered car had that level of overheating it would be called blatantly incompetent. I've always been baffled why Tesla is given a pass on this.
Good article on how the Taycan has enough cooling/thermal performance for extended serious driving. In contrast the Tesla overheats after one lap of a short road course (if you turn on the special pre-cooling mode before you do the lap, if you just get in and drive then it won't even last one lap). If a gas-powered car had that level of overheating it would be called blatantly incompetent. I've always been baffled why Tesla is given a pass on this.
I believe the Model S suffers from overheating. I was not aware the Model 3 had that issue. But they did add a Track Mode for the Performance version only which does what you mentioned - crank up the cooling to the max so you do not overheat. To me that does not mean that there's no cooling in the non Performance Model 3s. Besides in real world driving I didn't think I ever heard of a story of a Tesla overheating. I think there is a limitation to the pre-Raven Model S Performance Ludicrous modes that you can't do them back to back probably cause of the cooling. But I believe the Model 3 was produced with that in mind and the Performance version just takes it up to the next level cause of the Track Mode.
A bit like my 981 Spyder where if you can track with out Sport mode on which actually enables a 3rd radiator to keep the car even cooler sounds like.
Re: Porsche Taycan
Posted: 20 Sep 2019, 16:39
by foxmulder_ms
Porche, leading ICE sports car manufacturer. It spend 7 billion $ for the development of this and still handy beaten down by 2013 Tesla design. Model S is cheaper, reaches longer distance, faster, has more space.. Tesla's lead is HUGE.
As a side note:
Daimler abandons internal combustion engine development to focus on EVs:
.