F1technical.net

kooleracer wrote:But with only 33sec of e-power usage during a lap. Will we see record drop in lap times on tracks like Spa, Monza, etc, because of the lack of e-power the cover the entire lap? And is it fair to say that on those tracks the best ICE engine will be revealed because sometime during the lap the would be relying on that alone especially during quali. Because from the La Source tot Les combes is 25sec flat out. And Stavelot till the Bustop chicane is also 25 sec flatout. So 50 sec flat out where you can only use 33sec of E-power and thats excluding other parts of the track. Any solutions the counter that problem without a considerable drop of lap time?

Energy recovered from the MGU-H can be directly used by the MGU-K without an energy use restriction. So that if the engines can recover 100hp (75kW) in such situations only 60hp (45kW) need come from the energy store. With 2MJ storage that would equate to 45s running.

Will be interesting how this will evolve.

Methinks it will get into a simulator battle before each GP, for driver training which power unit map should be used in which situation / race phase and track position.

The longer I think about the more I believe a constructor team has not only a huge advantage wrt influencing packaging etc. but also because they have all means in house to simulate properly the engine behaviour in the simulator.
AFAIK there are teams which do not even have simulator. They'll have a hard time I guess, at least at the beginning.

Software / programming contest...

wuzak wrote:

kooleracer wrote:But with only 33sec of e-power usage during a lap. Will we see record drop in lap times on tracks like Spa, Monza, etc, because of the lack of e-power the cover the entire lap? And is it fair to say that on those tracks the best ICE engine will be revealed because sometime during the lap the would be relying on that alone especially during quali. Because from the La Source tot Les combes is 25sec flat out. And Stavelot till the Bustop chicane is also 25 sec flatout. So 50 sec flat out where you can only use 33sec of E-power and thats excluding other parts of the track. Any solutions the counter that problem without a considerable drop of lap time?

Energy recovered from the MGU-H can be directly used by the MGU-K without an energy use restriction. So that if the engines can recover 100hp (75kW) in such situations only 60hp (45kW) need come from the energy store. With 2MJ storage that would equate to 45s running.

On Monza you a still short a considerable amount of the max HP that is available for the entire lap. Monza is 76% full throttle. Pole lap was 83 seconds, 76% is 63 sec. so that is a big hole to fill 45-63= 18sec. That can only mean that the lap time will considerably drop. Also Monza and Spa always required more fuel then tracks like Monaco.

On tracks like Spa or Monza with long straights the engine and also the mguh is long and stady on hight revs. The harvest from the mguh could be useful for laptimes. Fuel consumption will be the bigger proplem there. Singapour or hungary will be interesting for mguh-management

WhiteBlue wrote:Piston design will be for higher pressure and not so high inertial forces for lower reving.

Actually, mean piston speed is slightly higher at 15k rpm with the new V6s than it is in the old V8s. The stroke is longer in the V6s even though the revs are reduced. In the 13.5k rpm range, the new V6 will be about the same as the V8s when limited to 18k rpm.

The Honda F1 turbo had a BMEP of 513psi. The new V6 turbo will reach max BMEP at 10.5k and will be around 460psi assuming the engine output will be max 600hp. Although this new BMEP is a little more than double the NA V8s.

I found this paper on a superturbo simulation. It is basically a turbo charged engine with a mechanical link to the crank as well. It draws power at low revs from the crank for the compressor and when the turbo spools it transfers power to the crank and to the compressor. So it's basically the same thing we will see minus the electrical link.
superturbo

"The simulation results showed improvements in engine brake specific fuel consumption (BSFC) up to 26% at high engine speeds when compared to the GM Vortec LMG engine and BSFC improvements up to 21% at 4500 rpm when compared to the stock Ecotec LSJ engine. At lower to mid-engine speeds both models saw BSFC improvements between 5 and 20%. It was
concluded that downsizing an engine with a SuperTurboTM was a practical way to improve engine BSFC while maintaining performance."

Im litte bit of the curren topic, but I wan to ask if somebody can answer - is it possible to use MGU-K as engine starter in these new engines? If yes, is ther some regulation they can do this during race?
Thanks

Mr.G wrote:Im litte bit of the curren topic, but I wan to ask if somebody can answer - is it possible to use MGU-K as engine starter in these new engines? If yes, is ther some regulation they can do this during race?
Thanks

The don't see why not, some of the early rules said they had to run purely electric in the pitlane that would mean starting the engine while exiting the pit

The rules just say they can use an external device to start the engine if they want to

I know of a transmission system that would allow full electric use in the pits and allow starting the engine at any speed up to the electric max.
It would also do away with the clutch.
Just saying.

dren wrote:

WhiteBlue wrote:Piston design will be for higher pressure and not so high inertial forces for lower reving.

Actually, mean piston speed is slightly higher at 15k rpm with the new V6s than it is in the old V8s. The stroke is longer in the V6s even though the revs are reduced. In the 13.5k rpm range, the new V6 will be about the same as the V8s when limited to 18k rpm.

the inertial forces are not related to piston speed, they are related to piston acceleration
piston acceleration in 2014 engines running at 13500 rpm will be about 25% less than in 2013 engines at 18000 rpm
presumably tolerable to a steel or part-steel piston

There are reports that Ferrari might be experimenting with smaller spark plugs.

timbo wrote:There are reports that Ferrari might be experimenting with smaller spark plugs.

I hear reports that Ferrari has mastered to cheat the flow-limiter and found a way to by-pass the 160 kW limit.

xpensive wrote:

timbo wrote:There are reports that Ferrari might be experimenting with smaller spark plugs.

I hear reports that Ferrari has mastered to cheat the flow-limiter and found a way to by-pass the 160 kW limit.

Very often your ironical or even cynical jokes pardon i mean comments make me laught!

timbo wrote:There are reports that Ferrari might be experimenting with smaller spark plugs.

Joke aside! That was rumored almost year ago. Peterr Wisdor mentioned on the racers age in episode dedicated in this this year rule changes. But he in that dont want to reveal source so he at that time only sad "little bird told me...see video"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjLruCcm ... page#t=215

But in one of previous shows i think it was episode when he were in Austin making chat show with fans, reveal his source = Marmorini (i think Marmorini wass original source afterall, even he od video below said "today").
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4ZjNMqc ... lpage#t=21

Just saying... Of coarse every engine manufacturer is looking for that option.

So no "magic" bullet here i believe, after all they in last updated version of tech rules for 2014 banned (writeoff) other ignition options like laser, or plasma systems (if my memory serve well). So there are pretty restricted and closed door for other exotic interpretations.

EDIT 1: i Additionally check rules about ignition systems and i lucky remember right so they relly ver restrict material and "standardized" spark plug selection...

FIA technical rules 11.12.2013 wrote:5.11 Ignition systems :

5.11.1 Ignition is only permitted by means of a single ignition coil and single spark plug per cylinder. No more than five sparks per cylinder per engine cycle are permitted.
The use of plasma, laser or other high frequency ignition techniques is forbidden.
Only approved ignition coils may be used and the list of parts approved by the FIA, and the approval procedure, may be found in the Appendix to the Technical Regulations.
5.11.2 Only conventional spark plugs that function by high tension electrical discharge across an exposed gap are permitted. Spark plugs are not subject to the materials restrictions described in Articles 5.16 and 5.17.

After i take quick unsuccessful look I had question here. Where i can found that " Appendix (green color font, above)"?

They can still use smaller plugs. COnventional just refers to the geometry, the electrode position etc.