F1technical.net

Vanja #66 wrote:

xpensive wrote:Again, if the Renault's installation in the 2014 RedBull looks anyting like that, xhausts and intercooler, I will eat a baclava.

So, you will punish yourself for misfiring... how?

Oh he'll be misfiring after eating a balaclava for sure. haha. I actually agree with him, we will see something completely different than these teaser videos suggest. But I won't eat a balaclave or baclava if I'm wrong!

found this cosworth exhaust from their hill climb engine quiet impressive.

tuj wrote:I don't know about water injection, 7.6 says:

The cooling systems of the power unit, including that of the charge air, must not intentionally make use of the latent head of vaporization of any fluid with the exception of fuel.

Now granted, that doesn't say anything about using water injection in the exhaust, but you would be making use of the vaporization effect to spin the turbo, so the way I read the rules (and granted the teams will use the most expansive reading possible), I don't see it as legal.

As I said there is ambiguity. Exhaust recirculation is not part of the charge air system or the cooling system. Recirculation is allowed and there are no provisions to my knowledge that restrain you from trickery there.

WhiteBlue wrote:

tuj wrote:I don't know about water injection, 7.6 says:

The cooling systems of the power unit, including that of the charge air, must not intentionally make use of the latent head of vaporization of any fluid with the exception of fuel.

Now granted, that doesn't say anything about using water injection in the exhaust, but you would be making use of the vaporization effect to spin the turbo, so the way I read the rules (and granted the teams will use the most expansive reading possible), I don't see it as legal.

As I said there is ambiguity. Exhaust recirculation is not part of the charge air system or the cooling system. Recirculation is allowed and there are no provisions to my knowledge that restrain you from trickery there.

I don't think there is any ambiguity at all.

5.14.2 Other than engine sump breather gases, exhaust gas recirculation, and fuel for the normal purpose of combustion in the engine, the spraying of any substance into the engine intake air is forbidden.

Even if you spray water in the EGR circuit, it is a substance being sprayed into the intake air which is forbidden.

Someone mentioned usink KERS to power the wheels while the engine was not spooled. That is actually a good alternative. Assuming that is what they intended to say.
It will give the car better response overall than if the MGUH was used to spool the compressor faster. Just put the power to the wheels instantly from the batteries and be done with it.
When the turbo is up to speed then disengage KERS (MGUK).

ringo wrote:Someone mentioned usink KERS to power the wheels while the engine was not spooled. That is actually a good alternative. Assuming that is what they intended to say.
It will give the car better response overall than if the MGUH was used to spool the compressor faster. Just put the power to the wheels instantly from the batteries and be done with it.
When the turbo is up to speed then disengage KERS (MGUK).

Is the no kers assist before 100kph rule still in force for 2014?

djos wrote:

ringo wrote:Someone mentioned usink KERS to power the wheels while the engine was not spooled. That is actually a good alternative. Assuming that is what they intended to say.
It will give the car better response overall than if the MGUH was used to spool the compressor faster. Just put the power to the wheels instantly from the batteries and be done with it.
When the turbo is up to speed then disengage KERS (MGUK).

Is the no kers assist before 100kph rule still in force for 2014?

That is just at the race start.

djos wrote:

ringo wrote:Someone mentioned usink KERS to power the wheels while the engine was not spooled. That is actually a good alternative. Assuming that is what they intended to say.
It will give the car better response overall than if the MGUH was used to spool the compressor faster. Just put the power to the wheels instantly from the batteries and be done with it.
When the turbo is up to speed then disengage KERS (MGUK).

Is the no kers assist before 100kph rule still in force for 2014?

Don't believe so as there is no KERS anymore.

bonjon1979 wrote:

djos wrote:

ringo wrote:Someone mentioned usink KERS to power the wheels while the engine was not spooled. That is actually a good alternative. Assuming that is what they intended to say.
It will give the car better response overall than if the MGUH was used to spool the compressor faster. Just put the power to the wheels instantly from the batteries and be done with it.
When the turbo is up to speed then disengage KERS (MGUK).

Is the no kers assist before 100kph rule still in force for 2014?

Don't believe so as there is no KERS anymore.

Good point but I was mainly referring to the power train component of the 2014 ERS system.

How would that work when the motor/generator is connected directly to the crank? Or could that change with the new engines?

You simply do the same thing they are doing for the past 4 years, don't put electrical energy to the MGUK motor. It is the same thing as KERS, they just name it differently.

There is indeed no Kers any more. The torque from the two sources must always be controlled by the throttle pedal only. So there is no opportunity to gain an advantage by employing the kinetic motor in a particular way. F1 being F1 they may have missed that point and kept the rule. I don't know. Somebody will have to have a look.

WhiteBlue wrote:There is indeed no Kers any more. The torque from the two sources must always be controlled by the throttle pedal only. So there is no opportunity to gain an advantage by employing the kinetic motor in a particular way. F1 being F1 they may have missed that point and kept the rule. I don't know. Somebody will have to have a look.

I can't find a minimum speed for kers/mgu mentioned in the 2013 or 2014 F1 technical regulation

langwadt wrote: I can't find a minimum speed for kers/mgu mentioned in the 2013 or 2014 F1 technical regulation

Havent heard of it either. LMP has a miminum speed. Or they did previous years. Dont know about 2014.

WhiteBlue wrote:There is indeed no Kers any more.

It is physically the same thing. Let's put the pedantry aside here.
If the engine is not on boost, the ecu can simply activate the MGUK/KERS motor, based on throttle input, until the turbine is spooled.