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Red Bull have also said that in hind sight they messed up by not testing the final update sooner, indicating that they had the design done and the car ready earlier than it was shown.

Adrian Newby wrote: it was a basic engineering principle....

Is it not basic engineering principle to throughly test everything. Bringing it out for the last session sure looks like a copy job. Looks like Adrian missed this one. Maybe he is on a downward slope? Of coarse it will be a shallow slope downward because he is soo brilliant.

Brian

Adrian Newby wrote:Red Bull have also said that in hind sight they messed up by not testing the final update sooner, indicating that they had the design done and the car ready earlier than it was shown.

Just a slight downward slope?

Brian

From the other thread...

mith wrote:I'm surprised no one remember, it's third time already, when Red Bull shows their final exhaust configuration on the last days of testing. There were even some funny stickers on RB6 to fool competitors, where the actual exhaust is located! I'm not trying to say, RB8's bridge exhaust (or call it however you want) is working properly or that is not, because how could I possibly know? But for one, I'm sure that this late redesign was planned way ahead and is not a sign of panic by throwing on the car random concepts copied from the competition as some suggest or the lack of ideas as suggest the others.

It is clear to me that they are in a panic and copied McLaren. I am sure it was a panic because they would be very embarrassed about having to copy McLaren. You can see it in their body language when they are on screen.

Brian

Sorry to spoil the party guys, but this thread is about the principle of exhaust blowing within the 2012 regulations. Not about Red Bull copying anyone, and certainly not why, if at all.

Thanks!

Adrian Newby wrote:

n smikle wrote: It would be crazyness for a top team like redbull to leave their final design development one month before the first race... it's obviously copied.

When I went to college, it was a basic engineering principle not to freeze the design until the very last possible minute. And Adrian Newey, being a very good engineer indeed, is well-known for this. Infamous for it even, if you ask team managers!

That's right. And I copied designs like hell when I saw something better! f1 doesn't stand still.

Newby, let's break it down.

1.Horner did not deny that they copied Mac.
2. He said they started from conception stage only just one month ago, talking about turn over rates and whatnot. This is what rang the bells for me.

3. Horner then implies that the development potential of these exhausts, that they saw Mclaren with, was what made the decision. He talks about Brazil etc.

4. The first week of testing in Barcelona when Adrian Newey saw the Sauber he said "that Sauber looks very interesting!" he was like "o shi.. those guys are doing it too!"

Alright, so look, I just got busted for saying "posterior" (such a filthy word! ) by Mr Mod-Dude above who just told you to stop this topic (much less say "o shi.." ). So, careful now, boys, lest ye get busted too!

That said... on with it.

I think it's funny as... um (must tiptoe now! [-o< )... "heck"... that you said that any real team wouldn't have waited on their design, then when I said that was accepted principle you said "That's right" and proceeded to use it as proof they were copying. Nice to have it both ways... it's hard to lose arguments that way, isn't it?

Also, if you are going to use Horner's words from that interview, then you can't pick and choose the one's you like because it is convenient for you. He said they started working on it a month before the interview, which would have been before he saw the other cars. Once again, you can't have it both ways.

hardingfv32 wrote:

Adrian Newby wrote:Red Bull have also said that in hind sight they messed up by not testing the final update sooner, indicating that they had the design done and the car ready earlier than it was shown.

Just a slight downward slope?

Brian

Brian, I am done talking to you. I would have to censor myself in ways I refuse to stoop to.

I appreciate the courtesy of you doing likewise.

Question:

How are teams overcoming the 'sensitivity' if off-throttle blowing has been banned for this season?

Exhaust blowing is nothing new, it's a very old concept in F1, older than the RB6/RB7. The reason teams went to periscope exhausts was because they didn't want their aero to be sensitive to throttle, so then they came up with off-throttle blowing for 2011...

But obviously that's banned now, so with some teams having some exhaust solutions that try to be as aero-effecient as possible...how are they getting around the sensitivity?

The get around the sensitivity by having the exhaust outlet upstream from the diffuser combined with the coanda effect of a gradual downslope to the sidepods. Even if its now worth 0.3s a lap its still the holy grail of efficient downforce.

King Six wrote:Question:

How are teams overcoming the 'sensitivity' if off-throttle blowing has been banned for this season?

Exhaust blowing is nothing new, it's a very old concept in F1, older than the RB6/RB7. The reason teams went to periscope exhausts was because they didn't want their aero to be sensitive to throttle, so then they came up with off-throttle blowing for 2011...

But obviously that's banned now, so with some teams having some exhaust solutions that try to be as aero-effecient as possible...how are they getting around the sensitivity?

Because the DF produced form the exhaust is so much less. Theoretically it will have on/off throttle balance shifts. They'll just be smaller.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyAyd4Wn ... re=related[/youtube]

I imagine exhausts do something similar, maybe something to expand discussion.

Off topic but the exhaust, why doesnt the FIA set the rules so the exhaust ends like they do on the new indy cars, straight up in the air on the sidepod. Having them like that has to make it even for everyone, and ofc ban any from of periscope above the hole, jsut have it like its in the pic.


See the red square

Huntresa wrote:Off topic but the exhaust, why doesnt the FIA set the rules so the exhaust ends like they do on the new indy cars, straight up in the air on the sidepod. Having them like that has to make it even for everyone, and ofc ban any from of periscope above the hole, jsut have it like its in the pic.


See the red square

Or the rules should say that exhaust pipe should be pointed out at the certain angle and should be long at least 10cm (from end of the body and end of the pipe)