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skoop wrote:

Andres125sx wrote:

skoop wrote: -Brakeforces won't be as high as this year, because of slower straight line Speed

With 25% more downforce and similary increased mechanical grip brake forces won´t be as high?

I know if topspeed is lower brake pressuse must be lower as higher speeds provide more DF so they can brake faster, but even so overall grip difference will be massive, and top speed difference will be specially noticeable on long straights, but at any other medium or short straight brake forces should be higher I think.

And even on tracks like Monza they will continue reducing drag as much as possible even if that reduces DF, and that means they might end up with similar DF and drag (even flatter wings), but wider tires will still improve braking and increase braking forces. That´s assuming they can go with similar DF and drag to current cars for Monza stile tracks wich I´m not sure if correct as the car and wings are wider

Andy Greens argument is, that you won't brake as hard, because you go quicker in the Corners. This and the slower top speeds will lead - according to him - to reduced brake forces.

With more downforce, more grip from wider tires, the brake force should be greater, but even shorter. So less brake energie.
Overtaking under braking would be even more difficult

skoop wrote:

Andres125sx wrote:

skoop wrote: -Brakeforces won't be as high as this year, because of slower straight line Speed

With 25% more downforce and similary increased mechanical grip brake forces won´t be as high?

I know if topspeed is lower brake pressuse must be lower as higher speeds provide more DF so they can brake faster, but even so overall grip difference will be massive, and top speed difference will be specially noticeable on long straights, but at any other medium or short straight brake forces should be higher I think.

And even on tracks like Monza they will continue reducing drag as much as possible even if that reduces DF, and that means they might end up with similar DF and drag (even flatter wings), but wider tires will still improve braking and increase braking forces. That´s assuming they can go with similar DF and drag to current cars for Monza stile tracks wich I´m not sure if correct as the car and wings are wider

Andy Greens argument is, that you won't brake as hard, because you go quicker in the Corners. This and the slower top speeds will lead - according to him - to reduced brake forces.

I'm pretty sure, that the braking forces will be higher, due to more df and the tyres. I really don't see a reason, why they shouldn't be braking harder, when they have more grip available. It just doesn't make sense to me to have a deceleration of 5G when you could decelerate with 6G for example. But the braking energy on the other hand could be lower. I don't really know what the implications of that might be.

rscsr wrote:

skoop wrote:

Andres125sx wrote: With 25% more downforce and similary increased mechanical grip brake forces won´t be as high?

I know if topspeed is lower brake pressuse must be lower as higher speeds provide more DF so they can brake faster, but even so overall grip difference will be massive, and top speed difference will be specially noticeable on long straights, but at any other medium or short straight brake forces should be higher I think.

And even on tracks like Monza they will continue reducing drag as much as possible even if that reduces DF, and that means they might end up with similar DF and drag (even flatter wings), but wider tires will still improve braking and increase braking forces. That´s assuming they can go with similar DF and drag to current cars for Monza stile tracks wich I´m not sure if correct as the car and wings are wider

Andy Greens argument is, that you won't brake as hard, because you go quicker in the Corners. This and the slower top speeds will lead - according to him - to reduced brake forces.

I'm pretty sure, that the braking forces will be higher, due to more df and the tyres. I really don't see a reason, why they shouldn't be braking harder, when they have more grip available. It just doesn't make sense to me to have a deceleration of 5G when you could decelerate with 6G for example. But the braking energy on the other hand could be lower. I don't really know what the implications of that might be.

It's the old mixup between force and energy again. The force will be higher but the energie lower, therefore less heat that will be generated and less kinetic energy harvesting.

Braking will be brutal and short.

The car will be heavier though...

Paul wrote:The car will be heavier though...

Around 3% max, while increase in grip trough downforce and tires will be around 20-30% minimal.

Cars would corner faster so they won't have to brake a whole lot before turning..

If top speed is lower, and final speed (when realeasing the brakes to enter the corner) is higher, the braking will be shorter because there´s less speed differential, but that means nothing about how fast you reduce that speed differential.

In other words, even when speed differential will be lower, deceleration will be higher due to higher DF and mechanical grip

BTW drag should help a little bit to increase that braking force as it is an aero brake. I´ll never forget a comparison I read a long time ago stating a F1 car, just releasing the throttle without even touching the brake pedal, suffer a deceleration higher than a production car with full brakes applied. It will obviously depend on aero config, and I guees it will be only at high speeds, but even so the comparison was mindblowing and make you realice about how draggy F1 cars are

Drag braking power at terminal speed is about 850HP, exactly as much as the engine power.
X once calculated that to be pretty close to 1g.

I think teams are going to find that they can get a lot of downforce from the front wing, barge boards, and diffuser, and the rear wing won't be as important as before, serving to more or less balance the car. Thus I don't think we'll see any barn doors, who knows, maybe McLaren's experience these last two years with an under-performing power unit could be a gift in disguise. Simply because they'll have had two years designing a chassis that's extremely aero efficient, such an approach could actually pay off next year where drag will be a bigger factor.

F1 2018 ?

The sidepods are not going to be any wider.

found on autosport forums:

spanish, but detailed drawings.

https://albrodpulf1.wordpress.com/2016/ ... la-1-2017/

slanted delta A1GP1 looks really turn me off (and that forced by the regs )

Does the kink in Ferrari's endplates match the 2017 rules?

Because according to the regs the rear wing is 950mm wide but:

3.5.2 The width of bodywork behind the rear wheel centre line and more than 450mm above the reference plane must not exceed 950mm.
3.5.3 The width of bodywork behind the rear wheel centre line and between 200mm and 450mm above the reference plane must not exceed 840mm.

So endplates have to be within 840 from the diffuser up to a point 450 above RP

McMrocks wrote:Does the kink in Ferrari's endplates match the 2017 rules?

Because according to the regs the rear wing is 950mm wide but:

3.5.2 The width of bodywork behind the rear wheel centre line and more than 450mm above the reference plane must not exceed 950mm.
3.5.3 The width of bodywork behind the rear wheel centre line and between 200mm and 450mm above the reference plane must not exceed 840mm.

So endplates have to be within 840 from the diffuser up to a point 450 above RP

as the author from above posted links sees it:

apparently there will be a kink, but I doubt that the Ferrari one is already matching size and placement of the 2017 reg one.