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Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021
Posted: 03 Sep 2020, 13:20
by Wynters
6-7/10ths seems like an unfeasibly high number. Unless Red Bull were doing the same (and I've not seen any indication that they were), this suggests that the 'true' gap was over a second a lap.
Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021
Posted: 03 Sep 2020, 13:38
by El Scorchio
Wynters wrote: ↑03 Sep 2020, 13:20
6-7/10ths seems like an unfeasibly high number. Unless Red Bull were doing the same (and I've not seen any indication that they were), this suggests that the 'true' gap was over a second a lap.
Well, if it's true and they were the only team doing this, then it does not bode well for the rest of the season in terms of competitiveness, if the intention was to increase that.
Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021
Posted: 03 Sep 2020, 13:44
by Sieper
With party mode ban you will be faster in the race. Not slower. As you will now have to run the highest mode you safely can, otherwise you will get outqualified. So what does running unnecessarily slow bring you?
Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021
Posted: 03 Sep 2020, 13:57
by Blackout
stevesingo wrote: ↑03 Sep 2020, 09:24
What is the likelihood of PU manufacturers adding a "charge" button to the steering wheel?
With a fixed PU mode, in normal use the SOC will be managed to keep within the 4MJ allowance per lap. If the driver uses the overtake, he will likely deplete the SOC more than he otherwise would in a normal lap. How else can he regain this without manually adding energy back in to the ES?
Good question.
And is this mode adaptative or fixed?
In addition to the emergency mode, there should still be an overrun button. Which parameters may it influence? Is it only about the electrical energy flow or also about the combustion engine?
Remi Taffin: It's mainly about the electrical energy. But as a side effect, the FIA has given us the option of using the waste gate valve. If you activate the overtaking mode, you get rid of any K-clipping (suspension of the MGU-K) you might have and at the same time it might allow you to have a different opening position of the wastegate valves to use more energy.
Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021
Posted: 03 Sep 2020, 15:23
by zibby43
George Russell’s take:
https://www.racefans.net/2020/09/03/att ... t-russell/
“I think unfortunately it will probably affect us and Racing Point more than Mercedes,” said Russell. “Purely because Mercedes are so far ahead in qualifying anyway.
“If anything it’s only going to help them even more in the race. So the whole idea of trying to slow them down is actually going to go completely the opposite way and is only going to enhance their performance.
“I think on a Saturday it will probably compromise us a tenth or two. But we expect it to also compromise the other manufacturers a tenth or so. So we are probably net one-tenth down on a Saturday.
“But on a Sunday we’re definitely net up by a big margin. And I think what Mercedes have done to improve the engine to allow us to run a very high engine mode for the whole race is really impressive and she’s going to be flying on the Sundays.”
Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021
Posted: 03 Sep 2020, 16:09
by djones
If what Russell says is right then that will be quite a hilarious backfire for the likes of Redbull and Marko.
If the Mercedes engined cars make a huge jump in the race, I wonder if they will retract the rule?
Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021
Posted: 03 Sep 2020, 16:15
by e30ernest
djones wrote: ↑03 Sep 2020, 16:09
If what Russell says is right then that will be quite a hilarious backfire for the likes of Redbull and Marko.
If the Mercedes engined cars make a huge jump in the race, I wonder if they will retract the rule?
If that happens, people will use this rule as further evidence that the FIA are actively trying to help Merc by making rule changes that would benefit the Silver Arrows.
I'm really excited on this race though. Would like to see where everyone would be come Sunday. Maybe we might even see some unreliability sneak-in.
Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021
Posted: 03 Sep 2020, 16:16
by El Scorchio
djones wrote: ↑03 Sep 2020, 16:09
If what Russell says is right then that will be quite a hilarious backfire for the likes of Redbull and Marko.
If the Mercedes engined cars make a huge jump in the race, I wonder if they will retract the rule?
If Racing Point becomes the second fastest car because of this, (and to a lesser extent Williams leapfrog a bunch of teams) then there could be some big fallout.
Actually if this had happened a few years ago, I wonder if it could have potentially saved the Williams family having to sell?
Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021
Posted: 03 Sep 2020, 16:22
by Hoffman900
There is an old saying, “rules beget more rules”.
The rules are so complicated to begin with, that the FIA has lost a bit of control and doesn’t fully understand what the competitors are doing with their rules, and now they create more rules that might not result in the desired outcome.
I think some of the best racing series or even sporting events, were developed by promoters (it is entertainment after all) and the competitors were controlled in the sense of “if you don’t like it, leave”. I think F1 needs some more of that. Instead, the FIA appears to be trying to be everything to everyone, appease every greasy wheel in the paddock, and has generally mis managed their entire series.
Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021
Posted: 03 Sep 2020, 17:24
by search
djones wrote: ↑03 Sep 2020, 16:09
If what Russell says is right then that will be quite a hilarious backfire for the likes of Redbull and Marko.
and even more so Ferrari, as if they really don't have a qualifying mode, there's also no way they can tune up the engine any further in the race now.
What influence will different engine age have for the teams now, though? I understand that on from the 3rd unit, all engines need to run in the same mode, but at the moment they can differ, can't they?! So if one driver has a newer engine (like one race old), he should be able to use a higher mode than someone with an engine introduced three races ago, as it has suffered less from qualifying modes used so far?!
Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021
Posted: 03 Sep 2020, 17:34
by dans79
e30ernest wrote: ↑03 Sep 2020, 16:15
If that happens, people will use this rule as further evidence that the FIA are actively trying to help Merc by making rule changes that would benefit the Silver Arrows.
A certain subset of the fanbase already thinks that so nothing will really change anyway!
Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021
Posted: 03 Sep 2020, 17:34
by Big Tea
If you have to run the same mode in the race as in qualifying, it is by definition no longer 'qualifying mode' is it? as it is used in the race it is race mode.
From here on in I get problems following. They will be allowed to have an in/out lap mode, and an overtake button, and a 'rapid recharge' mode, and possibly others we will not go into like limp mode.
So how does a combination of inlap mode, presumably not recharging, and overtake button, presumably top engine mode, differ from 'party mode'?
Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021
Posted: 03 Sep 2020, 17:36
by Wass85
Sieper wrote: ↑03 Sep 2020, 13:44
With party mode ban you will be faster in the race. Not slower. As you will now have to run the highest mode you safely can, otherwise you will get outqualified. So what does running unnecessarily slow bring you?
Maybe better reliability?
Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021
Posted: 03 Sep 2020, 17:37
by dans79
Big Tea wrote: ↑03 Sep 2020, 17:34
If you have to run the same mode in the race as in qualifying, it is by definition no longer 'qualifying mode' is it? as it is used in the race it is race mode.
From here on in I get problems following. They will be allowed to have an in/out lap mode, and an overtake button, and a 'rapid recharge' mode, and possibly others we will not go into like limp mode.
So how does a combination of inlap mode, presumably not recharging, and overtake button, presumably top engine mode, differ from 'party mode'?
From what little detail I can find it basically sounds like ice parameters cannot be changed. Thus, in out an overtake will probably just be changes to the electrical Modes.
Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021
Posted: 03 Sep 2020, 17:59
by El Scorchio
dans79 wrote: ↑03 Sep 2020, 17:37
Big Tea wrote: ↑03 Sep 2020, 17:34
If you have to run the same mode in the race as in qualifying, it is by definition no longer 'qualifying mode' is it? as it is used in the race it is race mode.
From here on in I get problems following. They will be allowed to have an in/out lap mode, and an overtake button, and a 'rapid recharge' mode, and possibly others we will not go into like limp mode.
So how does a combination of inlap mode, presumably not recharging, and overtake button, presumably top engine mode, differ from 'party mode'?
From what little detail I can find it basically sounds like ice parameters cannot be changed. Thus, in out an overtake will probably just be changes to the electrical Modes.
If it makes overtaking any harder, then it's going to be a complete disaster.