F1technical.net

True, to find your absolute maximum you need to push over that level. After all that's what pre season development and Testing is for.

NL_Fer wrote:Expecting Mercedes to have the same configuration on the test benches for at least 5 years now. I think they have gathered so much data, they could push performance this year till the ultimate limit. And maybe a 0.1% beyond looking at Hamilton's blowups.

From a development point of view the others, F R & H must be very close.

2016 was definitely solid performance and good reliability.

data mining is not enginering. it is important to identify weak spots in your engine, but you still need to find a solution. if you are that engineer who made first version most of the time its difficult to find a solution. so what i want to say is data will help but you need creativity to improve.

According to @ScarbsTech Honda did have more peak power than Renault but having a much worse fuel efficiency they were forced to have a huge amount of fuel saving and so they never exploited it.

Joseki wrote:According to @ScarbsTech Honda did have more peak power than Renault but having a much worse fuel efficiency they were forced to have a huge amount of fuel saving and so they never exploited it.

Wazari wrote:The most common questions I am getting is why Honda failed in 2016. Failure is subjective.

I´d say Honda did not fail in 2016, but they did in 2015 and that was 2016 problem. Since there was a token system strongly limiting PU development, 2015 fail did compromise 2016 PU.

Actually I was quite surprised of Honda improvement in 2016 after watching perfomance and reliability of 2015 PU

Wazari wrote:One thing that Mr. Soichiro Honda used to say, "If you are not breaking or experiencing failure during testing, then you are not pushing yourselves or your machinery hard enough."

Or you simply over-engineered things.

With testing you test not only parts, but also processes. That does include design process and safety margins. Only way to know if your safety margin is correct is going over it on purpose. If it does not break, your safety margin is too high and you can save some more weight

Joseki wrote:According to @ScarbsTech Honda did have more peak power than Renault but having a much worse fuel efficiency they were forced to have a huge amount of fuel saving and so they never exploited it.

I really wish Scarbs could say how he came to this conclusion.

Still, if he is correct, the introduction of TJI could fix the fuel efficiency problem and increase the power.

Fingers crossed.

hemichromis wrote:
I really wish Scarbs could say how he came to this conclusion.

Probably because Mr. Hasegawa was quoted after just abourt every GP how severe the Fuel savings were they had to manage.

hemichromis wrote:

Joseki wrote:According to @ScarbsTech Honda did have more peak power than Renault but having a much worse fuel efficiency they were forced to have a huge amount of fuel saving and so they never exploited it.

I really wish Scarbs could say how he came to this conclusion.

Still, if he is correct, the introduction of TJI could fix the fuel efficiency problem and increase the power.

Fingers crossed.

He saw my crude drawing of the different powerbands. Kidding of course.

http://i.imgur.com/6I8kEFb.jpg

godlameroso wrote:

hemichromis wrote:

Joseki wrote:According to @ScarbsTech Honda did have more peak power than Renault but having a much worse fuel efficiency they were forced to have a huge amount of fuel saving and so they never exploited it.

I really wish Scarbs could say how he came to this conclusion.

Still, if he is correct, the introduction of TJI could fix the fuel efficiency problem and increase the power.

Fingers crossed.

He saw my crude drawing of the different powerbands. Kidding of course.

http://i.imgur.com/6I8kEFb.jpg

How did you come up with these power-band curves? I just examined them carefully and I am really impressed.

I won't agree or disagree with @ScarbsTech but the gap between Renault and Honda IMO is single digits either way.

Wazari wrote: the gap between Renault and Honda IMO is single digits either way.

Careful. There are those on here who would have that digit be a percentage.

Have a lovely festive period, all.

Wazari wrote:

godlameroso wrote:
He saw my crude drawing of the different powerbands. Kidding of course.

http://i.imgur.com/6I8kEFb.jpg

How did you come up with these power-band curves? I just examined them carefully and I am really impressed.

I won't agree or disagree with @ScarbsTech but the gap between Renault and Honda IMO is single digits either way.

He did it as total fantasy just as illustration for a different discussion. Any correlation to reality was just down to F1T collective estimates.

Wazari wrote:One thing that Mr. Soichiro Honda used to say, "If you are not breaking or experiencing failure during testing, then you are not pushing yourselves or your machinery hard enough."

That's the kind of thinking that will see Honda produce a race winning Power Unit eventually. Honda has made good progress considering where they started in 2014. I hope 2017 sees Honda make significant progress towards the sharp end of
the grid. But people just need to be patient, I've seen how hard they work at Williams (went on a tour) and at the time they were not doing so well. Though the passion for racing pervades the place.

Wazari wrote:

godlameroso wrote:

hemichromis wrote:
I really wish Scarbs could say how he came to this conclusion.

Still, if he is correct, the introduction of TJI could fix the fuel efficiency problem and increase the power.

Fingers crossed.

He saw my crude drawing of the different powerbands. Kidding of course.

http://i.imgur.com/6I8kEFb.jpg

How did you come up with these power-band curves? I just examined them carefully and I am really impressed.

I won't agree or disagree with @ScarbsTech but the gap between Renault and Honda IMO is single digits either way.

I just guessed based on what little I know. Stuff thrown around here, things I've seen, my own experience with turbo power bands, listening to the cars. Nothing special.

Mr.wazari, could u tell us about engine power of Honda and its rivals in V8 and V10 era?