F1technical.net

Interesting analysis by autosport.com:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107432

Apperently almost all of the fine tuning, aero and suspension, has to change, requiring in alot of cases newly produced parts.
It's quite an investment to do so.

turbof1 wrote:Interesting analysis by autosport.com:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107432

Apperently almost all of the fine tuning, aero and suspension, has to change, requiring in alot of cases newly produced parts.
It's quite an investment to do so.

Yeah nice cost cutting measures... Even more strain on the alrdy strained teams of Caterham and Marussia, GG

Also means the teams who pretty much brought new cars to Barcelona will have to do it again at or after Canadas GP.

I am guessing this will stretch the field again, more then mixing up the order. The big teams will be the first ones and the best ones able to adapt to the new situation. Everybody else will not be able to bring as fast the required updates.

Red Bull might have the biggest advantage. Their suspension seems to be exactly the same as last year's. With a bit of luck they can just use parts produced last year. Mclaren seems the worst off at this, though with the tyres deflecting more like 2012 they might get their correlation issues out of the way.

We also dont know as he says in the article, how the 2012 structure will work out with the softness of the 2013 tyres, since 2013 tyres are one step softer each way with a new SS, and by that i mean this years Soft was was Super Soft last year in terms of softness.

CBeck113 wrote:Someone's not very happy with La Gomma
I believe that Pirelli did what they were told, but screwed up the tires this year.
My theory: the wall flex they built in to them was done on purpose to mess with the diffusors, making them less effective.

[...]

Why?

What do you guys think about the change to Pirelli tyres and how the MP4-28 will react to it?

Given that one of the *suggested* reasons for McLaren's struggles with the car is that they misunderstood how the 2013 spec tyres would deform under load etc, is it possible that reverting to a construction more like 2012's will help improve the car's performance?

turbof1 wrote: Apperently almost all of the fine tuning, aero and suspension, has to change, requiring in alot of cases newly produced parts.
It's quite an investment to do so.

Tell me about cost reduction. F1 sometimes behave like a 5 year old kid. Or as overly smart teenager with bad actor skills.

It isn't as simple as that. This year they follow a completely different front and rear suspension philosophy; data from last year is alot less useable, contrary to red bull who kept the same suspension.

The 2012 deformation might give them better correlation though. It will not solve their problems, but it might simplify it, giving mclaren the oppertunity to get on top of things later on.

adrianjordan wrote:What do you guys think about the change to Pirelli tyres and how the MP4-28 will react to it?

Given that one of the *suggested* reasons for McLaren's struggles with the car is that they misunderstood how the 2013 spec tyres would deform under load etc, is it possible that reverting to a construction more like 2012's will help improve the car's performance?

Reading the Pirelli release, it is not the construction that is being altered, it is only the compounds. The cars, including MP24-28 were designed around a stiffer construction. Altering the construction now, would be a mad thing to do. More interesting is the fact that Hembrey is blaming track debris for the delaminations. Does he expect all tracks to be perfectly clean at all times?

bhallg2k wrote:

CBeck113 wrote:Someone's not very happy with La Gomma
I believe that Pirelli did what they were told, but screwed up the tires this year.
My theory: the wall flex they built in to them was done on purpose to mess with the diffusors, making them less effective.

[...]

Why?

To even out the field by destabilizing the airflow at the diffusor ends, ie.e not letting it seal correctly (forced vertical movement to make it difficult for the diffusor to work, plus inconsistant flow due to the change in the shape of the side walls), in an attempt to keep the DF at last year's levels. But that didn't go so well, because the teams are too good at what they're doing.

bhallg2k wrote:

Cam wrote:Maybe you're right. Here I am thinking Pirelli have a master plan, when probably, as you say, they're just a --- company making turds. Case closed.

Well, that's odd. I'm accustomed to these things ending via PM from a moderator.

Cheers.

I admit I was heading to the PM button, but then I saw it coming to a happy ending.

Also rich language that would normally be seen as an inappropriate can occasionally be appropriate, especially when the moderator agrees.

gilgen wrote: More interesting is the fact that Hembrey is blaming track debris for the delaminations. Does he expect all tracks to be perfectly clean at all times?

By debris,does he mean the sea of marbles and the whole chunks of rubber from his companys ridiculous tyres???

Touristas wrote:

gilgen wrote: More interesting is the fact that Hembrey is blaming track debris for the delaminations. Does he expect all tracks to be perfectly clean at all times?

By debris,does he mean the sea of marbles and the whole chunks of rubber from his companys ridiculous tyres???

No, he means normal debris that would normally cause an instantaneous, catastrophic puncture. His assertion is that on last years tyre, the tyre would have punctured half a lap earlier, when the car ran over the debris. On this year's car, the tred gets sliced in half, but the tyre does not puncture due to the steel belt. Then, half way round the lap, the tyre reaches a critical temperature due to the damage, and the tred fails, causing a delamination.

His assertion is that the only reason we're complaining is that we're not seeing the debris strike and the puncture together (or even at all in the case of the debris strike), and hence they look like sudden, arbitrary, catarstrophic delaminations, rather than punctures.

beelsebob wrote: No, he means normal debris that would normally cause an instantaneous, catastrophic puncture. His assertion is that on last years tyre, the tyre would have punctured half a lap earlier, when the car ran over the debris. On this year's car, the tred gets sliced in half, but the tyre does not puncture due to the steel belt. Then, half way round the lap, the tyre reaches a critical temperature due to the damage, and the tred fails, causing a delamination.

His assertion is that the only reason we're complaining is that we're not seeing the debris strike and the puncture together (or even at all in the case of the debris strike), and hence they look like sudden, arbitrary, catarstrophic delaminations, rather than punctures.

I may be wrong, but is the belt not made of Kevlar? But one of the problems seems to be that the tread section is not bonding to the belt. Now, if that is the case, there must be considerable movement between the belt and tread, creating additional unwanted heat. Have a look at the front tyre of Perez 28 after the race, there was a huge burst blister on it, with the belt showing through. Had the race been one lap further, delamination would surely have been a certainty.

Sorry mods, this might have gone a bit off topic.

gilgen wrote:

beelsebob wrote: No, he means normal debris that would normally cause an instantaneous, catastrophic puncture. His assertion is that on last years tyre, the tyre would have punctured half a lap earlier, when the car ran over the debris. On this year's car, the tred gets sliced in half, but the tyre does not puncture due to the steel belt. Then, half way round the lap, the tyre reaches a critical temperature due to the damage, and the tred fails, causing a delamination.

His assertion is that the only reason we're complaining is that we're not seeing the debris strike and the puncture together (or even at all in the case of the debris strike), and hence they look like sudden, arbitrary, catarstrophic delaminations, rather than punctures.

I may be wrong, but is the belt not made of Kevlar?

Not any more – this changed this season – it's now made of steel, which is why the debris is not puncturing it instantly.

But one of the problems seems to be that the tread section is not bonding to the belt.

No, the problem is that the tread separates from the belt once it's already significantly damaged, and then heats up significantly.