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Kind of like the firing order on the Boss 302, sans cylinders 7 & 8 obviously.

1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8

or 1-3-2-6-5-4, but would make more sense as 1-3-2-6-4-5

Glenn,

Thanks for your reply.

The point I made was not to favour uneven firing; it was just a general point that turbine efficiency is not the whole picture.

Apols: I think I may have been stating the "bleeding obvious" ... !

Hasegawa says level of 2016 Mercedes PU has not been reached yet....but will by start of season.


So we are minus what ever MB did.

I will be utterly impressed if the PU is at the 2016 Mercedes level by season start.

Did they discover some new development step that they're trying to get working by late March? If they match Mercedes power in 2016 it'll be a huge accomplishment, it means the power unit will have improved by over a second, compare that to Renault's .3 gain over last year(which wouldn't be enough to overtake Mercedes, considering the "substantial" step they've taken).

My only concern is whether or not the direction they're pursuing now has the development potential to catch and overtake the others. It'll be a disaster if they have to backtrack, and consider a new layout mid-season. If the current layout has potential that just needs to be unlocked it's not so bad, Honda can just do what Honda does best and out-develop everyone else like they do in Moto GP.

Another thing to consider, maybe it's not just peak power, but for how long that power is sustainable. We'll see how testing goes, what kind of long runs we see from McLaren relative to the others.

I'm guessing around 1:24's for average race pace.

GoranF1 wrote:Hasegawa says level of 2016 Mercedes PU has not been reached yet....but will by start of season.


So we are minus what ever MB did.

Where did you hear this? Definitely didn't hear that in the car launch.

trinidefender wrote:

GoranF1 wrote:Hasegawa says level of 2016 Mercedes PU has not been reached yet....but will by start of season.


So we are minus what ever MB did.

Where did you hear this? Definitely didn't hear that in the car launch.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hond ... el-876810/

To be true... If Honda is at the Level of the beginning 2016 Merc PU, that would simply be sad...

I mean really, they have the potential to do some good things. If they aren't sleeping it would wonder me if they wouldn't be at least on the same Level as MB mid-season.

Honda has everything they need now to get up. I -however- have a good feeling, that they are definetly better than Hasegawa tells us. If Wazari isn't completely lying to us, Honda is also working on a vortex exhaust System, just like MB is expected to. And this exhaust system could be the reason why MB is expected to do such a high Performance gain, this should also apply to Honda.

I hope so too. Apparently they're almost at the level of Mercedes 2016 Abu Dhabi spec.

"I'm feeling we are not far behind them [where they were at end of 2016], but I think we will catch up with them by the beginning of the season."

glenntws wrote:To be true... If Honda is at the Level of the beginning 2016 Merc PU, that would simply be sad...

I mean really, they have the potential to do some good things. If they aren't sleeping it would wonder me if they wouldn't be at least on the same Level as MB mid-season.

Honda has everything they need now to get up. I -however- have a good feeling, that they are definetly better than Hasegawa tells us. If Wazari isn't completely lying to us, Honda is also working on a vortex exhaust System, just like MB is expected to. And this exhaust system could be the reason why MB is expected to do such a high Performance gain, this should also apply to Honda.

Honda 2017 = Mercedes 2016 final spec, not Melbourne spec.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hond ... el-876810/

Following suggestions that Mercedes has made an 'unprecedented' step with its 2017 power unit, after a major overhaul of its design, Hasegawa was well aware that Honda could find itself still with plenty of work to do.

"I heard Mercedes also did a very great job, which is very unfortunate," he said.

I am confused but this last comment. Why would you say its unfortunate that Mercedes has made a step over the winter...did they expect them to stand still?

Being on the 2016 MB engine level can only be seen as a positive sign if the jump Mercedes has made over the winter is no more than 0.5 seconds. After two years of painful lessons starting the season with an engine that is more than 0.5 seconds of the best engine would be hard to swallow, but i am keeping my fingers crossed.

glenntws wrote:To be true... If Honda is at the Level of the beginning 2016 Merc PU, that would simply be sad...

I mean really, they have the potential to do some good things. If they aren't sleeping it would wonder me if they wouldn't be at least on the same Level as MB mid-season.

Honda has everything they need now to get up. I -however- have a good feeling, that they are definetly better than Hasegawa tells us. If Wazari isn't completely lying to us, Honda is also working on a vortex exhaust System, just like MB is expected to. And this exhaust system could be the reason why MB is expected to do such a high Performance gain, this should also apply to Honda.

Development takes time.

2016 mercedes pu max power output it was with 100kg/h fuel flow ...and honda say he can catch this numbers with 105kg/h ?....5% efficiency difference its around 50hp ....with more 20-25 hp desavantage mclaren has no chance ...with no tokens honda must have upgrade engines every 5 races... any news about engines spec on test days ...something similar like last year with spec 2 for second week ?

ollandos wrote:2016 mercedes pu max power output it was with 100kg/h fuel flow ...and honda say he can catch this numbers with 105kg/h ?....5% efficiency difference its around 50hp ....with more 20-25 hp desavantage mclaren has no chance ...with no tokens honda must have upgrade engines every 5 races... any news about engines spec on test days ...something similar like last year with spec 2 for second week ?

Max fuel flow is the same as last year, it's 100 kg/h.

glenntws wrote:To be true... If Honda is at the Level of the beginning 2016 Merc PU, that would simply be sad...

Or a solid base to develop the new concept from.

I mean really, they have the potential to do some good things. If they aren't sleeping it would wonder me if they wouldn't be at least on the same Level as MB mid-season.

I think Honda may get close but not quite close enough to Mercedes this year. Depends on them being on the correct development path for the new PU concept.

Honda has everything they need now to get up. I -however- have a good feeling, that they are definetly better than Hasegawa tells us. If Wazari isn't completely lying to us, Honda is also working on a vortex exhaust System, just like MB is expected to. And this exhaust system could be the reason why MB is expected to do such a high Performance gain, this should also apply to Honda.

It's too early to say what Mercedes have done exactly. As for Honda ? No real point in hyping up the new PU as they simply do not know at this point how they stack up against the other manufacturers. An early success out of the gate would be surpassing Renault's Performance level. Also I would not be surprised if Honda ignores the 4 power unit per driver limit, if they have developments that bring a real performance improvement and not just tinkering around the edges.