F1technical.net

I am at the GP this weekend.

IMO the Ferrari is the sweetest sounding of the three engines. The Merc is harsher, like a poor after-market exhaust, while the Renault sounds quite soft. Can't say what they are like on TV, as I haven't really seen them.

The Ferrari is incredible under braking. All three have the turbine like whine, but the Ferrari has no exhaust sound, and the gear changes are imperceptible.

When they get on the power, all three growl and grumble, before clearing out to their final note.

The Renault is clearly the least sorted. Lots of surge on partial throttle/low speed running. RR seems to have the best situation, perhaps they have the latest software and the others don't.

Just a quick video showing the difference in sound from an equal length to an unequal length header on a Subaru Impreza. The unequal length pipes on the Mercedes engine could well explain why they sound much deeper than the others.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGykinGlPno[/youtube]

wuzak wrote: The Renault is clearly the least sorted. Lots of surge on partial throttle/low speed running. RR seems to have the best situation, perhaps they have the latest software and the others don't.

From where I was standing (turn 9-10), would say all the Renault cars sound equally bad on partial throttle, while accelerating out of turn 9 the Red Bulls and Torro Rosso's sound fairly similar to the other engines.

Will be interesting to see where the fingers point on the likely disqualification of Ricciardo for exceeding the flow limit.

The article is trash, there is no way the Mercedes engine is developing 740 Hp, and the Marko quote is laughable, he could very well believe the Merc engine has 600 hp. The 900 Hp figure isn't even substantiated in the article.

Cold Fussion wrote:The article is trash, there is no way the Mercedes engine is developing 740 Hp, and the Marko quote is laughable, he could very well believe the Merc engine has 600 hp. The 900 Hp figure isn't even substantiated in the article.

+1

And of course its now a fuel formula.

In qualifying they can use a maximum flow rate of 100kgs/hour....

but.... to finish an average 1hr40min race they will have to reduce that too 60kgs/hour.(assuming no SC periods).

They may have 900bhp on a test rig or test day , but they will not on a GP weekend.

Rob

The flow rate is an instantaneous limit, it doesn't matter if the race is 5 nanoseconds long or 2 hours, they're only allowed to burn 100 kg/h. Perhaps you're confused with the 100 kg race fuel limit; For a standard hour and 40 minute race, with an average full throttle time of 60%, that would get you to maximum allotted fuel of 100 kg.

Cold Fussion wrote:The flow rate is an instantaneous limit,

Perhaps you're confused with the 100 kg race

No ....Not at all...please re read what I wrote. ...I have not mentioned a weight of fuel ...only a kgs/hr flow rate.

60kgs/hr is 60% of 100kgs/hr.

Kgs/hr is the same as MPH ,you do not have to drive for 1hr to find out your MPH.

Rob

R_Redding wrote:

Cold Fussion wrote:The flow rate is an instantaneous limit,

Perhaps you're confused with the 100 kg race

No ....Not at all...please re read what I wrote. ...I have not mentioned a weight of fuel ...only a kgs/hr flow rate.

60kgs/hr is 60% of 100kgs/hr.

Kgs/hr is the same as MPH ,you do not have to drive for 1hr to find out your MPH.

Rob

The limit is on peak flow not average flow. They don't have to reduce the flow to 60 kg/h for the race

reducing the flow rate to 60kg/hr for a race assumes that you will be at the maximum fuel rate for every second of the race, which you will not. not during braking, not during anything part-throttle.

I'm absolutely laughing my head off. A few of us knew from day one, and pointed it out on this thread, that this fuel flow control was never going to work in a year of Sundays:

http://adamcooperf1.com/2014/03/16/chri ... at-sensor/

But, the ever faithful FIA lapdog assured us that it was perfectly measurable and tolerances weren't a problem. Anyone with half a brain cell knows that this was never going to work and the people at the FIA are totally incompetent to think that it would.

"We had an issue with a sensor that changed its reading through Friday practice, that sensor was then replaced for another sensor on Saturday that then failed during qualifying. We were then asked to put the sensor from Friday back in the car and apply an offset."

Just what can you say in response that that amateur hour piece of tripe? You're going to see races descend into a ton of legal wrangling over this and it will not be remedied by some little regulation change at the end of the season.

R_Redding wrote:They may have 900bhp on a test rig or test day , but they will not on a GP weekend.

If you have the power you can use it when you want, that's the point, and it's become crystal clear now that no one can trust the fuel flow regulations and control.

A band of us predicted months ago on this very thread that this is an area of the regulations someone could drive an 18 wheeler through. So it has proved.

bhallg2k wrote:....The current power units, on the other hand, have a much wider power-band, and the cars have less downforce on the drive wheels. So, naturally, drivers have to be a bit more delicate when applying the throttle....

I don't agree with your view. I think it is the high torque that the turbo engines produce at relatively low revs that make the drivers break traction. If it would only happen under braking I would be inclined to believe in the lack of downforce theory. The point is it happens predominently when powering out of slow corners when cars do not generate significant downforce anyway. It is the torque curve characteristic that provides the big difference. I have not down rated you either and I will leave it to the mods to maintain a pleasant experience for all readers.

thisisatest wrote:reducing the flow rate to 60kg/hr for a race assumes that you will be at the maximum fuel rate for every second of the race, which you will not. not during braking, not during anything part-throttle.

this..

** to finish an average 1hr40min race they will have to reduce that too 60kgs/hour.(assuming no SC periods).**

The reason why my assumption above is wrong is that it does not take into account time spent braking , cornering etc or the use of ERS.

But the 100kgs/hr flow rate will still be a limiting factor on how much hp can be produced.

Rob

WhiteBlue wrote:

bhallg2k wrote:....The current power units, on the other hand, have a much wider power-band, and the cars have less downforce on the drive wheels. So, naturally, drivers have to be a bit more delicate when applying the throttle....

I don't agree with your view. I think it is the high torque that the turbo engines produce at relatively low revs that make the drivers break traction.

Ahhhhh, torque, power......they're all interchangeable terms, aren't they?